Thread 99 (yes, 99!): Join us for spirited discussions of The Archers and its Top Blokes, whether you're Team Elizabeth (low spirits), Team Kate (Spiritual Home) or Team Toby (spirits =gin)

[Bittermints]

Thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit. Thanks also to all those who contributed to the thread title.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

So, to business. What a fantastic two-hander. Massive BOOP points to Alison Dowling, the scriptwriter and director (and the therapist). I had more than a small tear in my eye listening to that.

I'm another one with a vote of thanks to chemenger for all that information on the last thread about distilling. I should know some of that because I went on a tour of the whisky distillery near where my parents live but I've forgotten most of it except how delicious the end product is.

And there is something a bit off about how she is constantly “so stressed”, working evenings and weekends and seemingly afraid of making mistakes or failing- I think it’s a shame that just because they gave her a “high powered” job it has to be portrayed as horrible working conditions. She never talks about support from her team, just fear of being criticised.

but Alice is on the wrong side of that divide given her education and experience
Or she is perfect because she is a technical person who can still be put in front of clients and relied upon to talk enthusiastically in a language they can understand.

And there is something a bit off about how she is constantly “so stressed”, working evenings and weekends and seemingly afraid of making mistakes or failing
Sounds entirely normal in my line of work (consultancy). It doesn't even require horrible working conditions, it's a personality type!

Oh dear ...

MysticBore™️ predicts that the Grundies and Aldridges will do a home-swap.

But ... how would that save the Aldridges money?

They settled on Willow Cottage because it was the only thing available in Ambridge I think, so their budget might cover Grange Farm?

Despite listening to the whole Helen and Rob storyline I couldn't place which scene that song had featured in previously. Someone enlighten me please!

I couldn't really hear the music, but was it any chance what Rob said was playing "the night I gave you a son"

I don't know, the only sound I can remember from that night was the noise of her zip and the sound she made, which still makes me feel sick!

I agree with thislido about Alice saying she's too busy for children at the moment. She's had Chris pressuring her about starting a family, so she's not going to want to admit to him (or anyone else yet) that she doesn't. So being really busy with work is a good excuse. She won't be able to keep that up forever though.

I feel a bit sorry for Lee. He must really like Helen to put up with all her weirdnesses so far. I wonder how he will take tonight. And will Helen refuse to see or speak to him now? Maybe he'll finally think of Googling her name.

Wasn't Susan's dinner party tonight? I was hoping to hear that!

Did they say Helen's dress was dark blue? Is she still influenced by Rob's pressure on her to dress discreetly?

My first BOOP for the Helen freak out we've been waiting for. I thought it was pretty realistic insofar as my zero experience that something smell would set her off. Shame Lee didn't turn the music off and placate her immediately, that would seem more in character with him.

I wonder if he will hear second hand now?

Didn't think that about the navy dress but you could be right about Rob's influence.

Smell?? SMALL!

Helen is destined to be alone isnt she Far too much high maintenance for any normal bloke Run Lee Run away now

Can't work out what the badness will be for Emma cos we know Ed is a bit dim well he is isnt he The poor Grundy's

Massive BOOP for Helen last night, and for Lee's utter confusion. It was really nicely written and beautifully acted. BOOPity BOOP BOOP BOOP.

sorry did I just read it Lower Loxley is Freddies in Nigels Will ... OMG he's gonna chuck his mother out and set it up as a drug den someone tell me if the LL Will thing is correct

So the sound of Pat zipping up her dress was totemic, in a "ooh, clev-er" kind of way; the blue dress: the zip: the music. Someone will be along in a minute to remind us she had her hair up "that night" too.

But we've seen lee has good empathy and motivation so he may be just the man she needs. (Bet he is not called Lee but Sean and goes by Lee as an homage to his hero)

Well ... ednclouda - one would hope the LL trust was set up in such a way that Elizabeth will always be secure. Nigel's mother lived there until she died. And I'd imagine there's a LL Dower House in waiting, somewhere on the estate, if she should want to live separately.

That said - your idea sounds rather entertaining!

I think I remember (it was earlier this week, so I hope I'm not wrong) that when Helen tried the dress on, or described it to someone, it was mentioned that it had long sleeves and a nice high neck and a good length, or something, which at the time made me think Rob still had influence over her.
I see from elsewhere that the song playing was a cover of the Bob Marley song "Is This Love?", by Corinne Bailey Rae, which it is said was playing when Rob raped Helen and also, apparently, when Helen stabbed Rob. Interesting that the Continuity/Archives department swung into action for this but that other things are conveniently forgotten!

Perhaps Alice can't face giving up drinking and that's why she doesn't want to start a family? It's been hinted/down right shown she has an alcohol problem lots of times...

She described the dress to Emma. She said it was a midi length, dark blue, with white flowers and that it looked nicer than it sounded.

When Pat was helping her she said she “felt like a different person” but she said it in a positive way, as though she liked what she saw in the mirror and felt attractive, so I didn’t get the feeling she was still ‘dressing for Rob’.

Helen was wearing (and had chosen) a navy dress with flowers on it. I got the feeling that she is still highly traumatised from the rapes\abuse in her marriage . She is more in need of therapy than Lizzie (not that it's a competition of course)

Perhaps Alice can't face giving up drinking and that's why she doesn't want to start a family?

More likely she drinks because she is sick of being subjected to bump watch.

Thank you for the information about Helen's dress, my attention/memory span is atrocious and only getting worse! I completely agree with ppeatfruit, though Lizzie should definitely have had bereavement counselling at the time of Nigel's death, it was very strange that Helen didn't seem to have been counselled at all in the aftermath of Rob.
On the music playing, the Academic Archers FB group has referred to a presentation at their conference in 2017, about 45 minutes in to this YouTube video