As Frilly stress Lizzy out, did the SWs forget her heart defect? Will there be long term llama drama karma in The Archers?

[PseudoBadger]

Perhaps the archer clan could lure him in to a tent at the flower and produce show.... David, Shula and Kenton inside, Adam minding the tent flap to keep inquisitive people away, and Jill on a chair in the middle leading the questions....

spending most of the time working and not really paying them a lot of attention or investing much time in them.

She is a single parent who also has to run a business.

We don't have any evidence that she spends less time with her children than any other working parents. Shula was never shown spending much time with Daniel, David seems only to spend time with Pip, Emma works all the hours sent as does Ed.

"spending most of the time working and not really paying them a lot of attention or investing much time in them."

Yep. Definitely the mother's fault. Always is......

I agree I think Elizabeth's reaction to in particular Lillys situation is bizarre but I see no evidence she has been a bad parent. I am really uncomfortable about everyobes reaction to Lilly and Russ, thank god for Kenton.

I think she has actually done very well but she feels guilty. Like many women do. I don’t think it’s her ‘fault’. One of her challenges has been keeping LL for Freddie to inherit. She has been dealt a tough hand.

It must be incredibly difficult for her to see it unraveling.

Perhaps the archer clan could lure him in to a tent at the flower and produce show.... David, Shula and Kenton inside, Adam minding the tent flap to keep inquisitive people away, and Jill on a chair in the middle leading the questions....

I love that image, DarkAndStormy - reminds me a bit of the film "Hot Fuzz".

I found the whole Lily/Elizabeth/Russ shopping scene silly. If my dd (a year younger than Lily) was planning to move in with her 40-year-old deputy head there's no way I'd be taking her on a pre-university shopping trip as if she was just moving into halls like any normal student. I just about take Elizabeth's point about not wanting to drive them further together, but I would have thought one way of helping her daughter to face up to reality would be to let them buy their own stuff and pay for their own flat. I also can't imagine any 40-year-old man wanting to go on a shopping trip with his girlfriend's mum - even if she was paying - just too weird. I realise that these scenes were all about showing the sort of person Russ is, but I think that could have happened in a different way (he could have gone with Lily, insisted on Egyptian cotton, 3-speed kettles etc and then claimed he couldn't afford it and asked Lily if she couldn't get her mum to pay for some of it which would have made the same point). When Elizabeth was moaning on about her children slipping away I just wanted to shout at her: "That's because they need you to be their parent not their friend." Kenton has it spot on, I can't for the life of me see why Elizabeth needs it pointing out to her. Never mind Freddie's reference - she should be showing Russ up for the kind of man he is, one who grooms his teenage pupils and turns a blind eye to drug taking by the likes of Ellis in his college.

DDD and Dark and Stormy
Definitely death by Dhalia, ‘’tis for the greater good.

It’s a shame he’s now being written as exaggeratedly idiotic. It’s unecessary and far less interesting to make him a pantomime villain.

Of course it is possible that it’s genuinely a love match........

Sadly they seemed very well matched last night, as bad as each other!

It’s unecessary and far less interesting This is it in a nutshell. I think for the story to work we have to be able to see his appeal to Lily - now he is being portrayed as a total arse I think the old Lily (who was 18-going-on-40 giving advice to Phoebe not so long ago) would see straight through him and drop him like a stone.

Kenton lulls you into a false sense of security, he is ok, nice even for ages, then he behaves like an absolute dick to Fallon.

Lizzie's worst fault in the past was that she always went off one when the twins told her about any minor misdemeanour, so they became secretive and couldn't come to her with problems. And now she is the opposite and rather too chilled out about Lily boffing her married teacher and Freddie's drug dealing.

Lillian - I agree with everything you've just said.

On the grooming point: so Kenton asks if she was groomed, and the answer to that is Lily says she wasn't groomed, she was just attracted to him - oh well, that clears that up then, clearly no grooming went on!

Hope you don't mind me de-lurking, I just listened and feel very sorry for Elizabeth. I think her strange inability to grasp what's going on with Lilly and take some proper action is because she's gone into a kind of mind fog where she's just going through the motions but her head's closed down because she can't cope with it all. If you think about it, it's only seven years since Nigel died, which isn't really all that long in bereavement terms, and she has managed to run the business and keep the kids going through school in that time, and now it's all coming crashing down around her ears. I think she's become unable to deal with what's happening and is in a huge, stress-induced fug.

And this is why it was such a terrible idea for Brookfield, Home Farm, The Stables and LL to all be facing life changing stress at the same time. (Presumably the result of 97 editors within a year.)

The Archers are supposed to be a family - and a community. Given how much they live in each other’s pockets and poke their noses into each other’s business, one would have thought that by now they would have held several councils of war to deal with the Freddie problem. And consequently all the Russ stuff would have come out - and he’d have been summarily drummed out of town. (In the way that Sid got rid of Kathy’s attacker.) But instead, each house is so taken up with its own troubles that no-one is doing more than shaking their head in sorrow at Elizabeth’s plight. It just doesn’t seem real. (Unless the SWs genuinely want to re-make the point about isolation in the midst of family?)

And, yes - welcome to all newbies and de-lurkers. Stay and chat!

This is it in a nutshell. I think for the story to work we have to be able to see his appeal to Lily - now he is being portrayed as a total arse I

I'm really , really, really, really not seeing his appeal. The supper was excrutiating- his behaviour was so gauche. And now he is -I don't know how to describe it. Silly and spoilt? And deeply unattractive.

To make "Lily falling for an older man" story believable for me he should look like say Sam Neill or Anthony Head at that age and have the sort of worldly intelligence, wit and confidence of someone like the late Christopher Hitchens or Martin Amis or Andrew Neil or the sort of characters Roger Allam often plays and be as knowledgeable about the arts as say Mark Lawson or Michael Ignatieff.

In Cabin Pressure Anthony Head's character was disparagingly (and inaccurately) called Herc the Berk- Russ is 100% berk.

@LassWiADelicateAir, or he could just be Alan Rickman (in his pre-deaded days, obviously), probably as the Sheriff of Nottingham.

I do entirely agree re Russ being so unbelievable, though perhaps Lily finds his organic quinoa and special kettle chat very sophisticated - she is only 18 after all and she's playing at making home.

The world is so full of dishy older men at that age, how have the SWs messed this up so badly? Do they assume we can't do subtle?

But I would imagine that teachers who have relationships with pupils are inevitably inadequate so perhaps they have got it spot on.

But a man with the attributes you describe, lass, wouldn't be remotely interested in an 18yo. He'd want an equal, so that would be even more unbelievable.

Since it's radio, I think we have to imagine that Russ is physically quite 'fit' for his age. And I'm guessing part of his appeal to lily was as some sort of mature 'father figure' so I'm hoping that she is rapidly becoming disillusioned by his being a strange hybrid of gauche teenager and fussy middle aged man.

But I would imagine that teachers who have relationships with pupils are inevitably inadequate so perhaps they have got it spot on.

I must admit Russ is making me think of the maths teacher who abducted a pupil a few years back so yes, I would agree. I am simultaneously struggling though with Lily the ultra cool style leader suddenly falling for such a twonk. When did the current editor's influence start to be seen in SLs?

Though I think I shouted more at the radio tonight listening to Helen the poor struggling single parent (cough). And if I'd been doing shots every time the Nuffield was mentioned I'd have been batfaced by 7.10pm....

I enjoyed tonight! (Once Tom’s first lecture was over ) Proper, gentle, careful conversation about real things (mostly) rather than dashing out the next plot point.

A particular BOOP for Elizabeth. I was holding my breath during her conversation with Clarrie and then again with Johnny. Really excellent.

I thought Elizabeth's conversation with Johnny verged on emotional blackmail. I was hoping he would tell her about everything including the brick through the window.

Why can't Elizabeth tell Lily that Russ is a loser? Freddie would.