We never thought we’d feel sorry for Will. Although of course it should have been Pip! Discuss The Archers here (Titled edited by MNHQ)

[PseudoBadger]

Welcome all! I was really touched by the potential for Ed and Will to reconcile. But wonder if Will can accept Ed’s support.

As ever, no spoilers here (there’s a thread for that) - discussion permitted as soon as the pm episode is broadcast.

And he hasn't said anything in his grief that he wouldn't have said before.

I think even going around Drama schools it's going to be tricky to find the right child actors one of my pet hates about child actors is when they sound like drama school children. And like no normal child ever.

I agree with Bert re Will losing his filter. But it would be far less credible if he suddenly became Saint Willyum the reasonable.

It will be interesting to see which character runs out of patience with him first.

I checked the character list, Poppy was born September 2013 so is four and a half. My son is younger so I don’t know but is the way Poppy is portrayed as behaving right for a child that age-all these naps and things and talk of her not really understanding what is going on, thinking her mother will come back etc? I thought kids that age were a bit more mature.

I dint know Jessie my then 4 and a half year old cheerfully told me I could just get another one when he asked why I was crying after my Grandpa died. Naps also not unheard of at this age, particularly if out of routine.

The Archers track record in portraying grief in kids is poor I think - I seem to recall after SATTC, there was a ridiculous bit where someone said Freddie hadn't understood about the funeral and he thought that was when Nigel would come back or something daft like that. Freddie was 12 at the time Nigel was killed I think!

Poppy was born a few days after my dd. She won't be at school til this year. We don't really have naps now but if she's late to bed or it's been busy she will sometimes conk out. It's not usual for kids her age to have a regular nap.

I don't know if she would understand if I was dead. She's familiar with animals dying as we live in a farming community (so like Poppy) but not maybe that people won't come back ever again.

You don't stop being a tosser just because you're grieving- you just become an unfiltered tosser. And if it's your filter that's died. That's it in a nutshell. I do feel sorry for him though - he has no idea what to do, won't accept any help, wants to go back to work to try and pretend everything is normal, but isn't allowed to... Agree with Gruach re Emma - he certainly doesn't want his ex-wife who ran off with his brother and tried to say their son wasn't his fussing round - she's doing it to try and make herself feel better, but it's not helping Will.

All very sad. I remember there was some story line about Ruari (who was also 4 as someone else longed out upthread) burying a bee as part of his coming to terms with Siobhan’s death.

I must admit I did cringe when Emma let herself into Will’s house. Spectacularly rude and insensitive...and you can just imagine that leap in the stomach as his brain involuntarily associates the sound of the keys in the door with Nic coming home.

Elizabeth might be the person best able to talk to him.

AT 4 my DC used to play games in which a toy died, but then they took it to the hospital and they made it "alive again". They really had no concept.

Does anyone else, sniff an affair in the air for Adam?

Indeed I did, Minimammoth! Glad it's not just me who thinks Adam is chronically susceptible. It would really stuff things up for good with him and Ian, surely, this time though.

Abra - an excellent suggestion. Nigels was another sudden death - didn't"t Elizabeth blame david for taking him on the roof? Actually when you think about it there are a lot of people who have lost spouses - Shula lost her husband in accident (though didn't even know she was pregnant at that point), the vicar lost his wife (not sure of circs - was it sudden or was it anilines) in any case it left him with a daughter to bring up - actually I think he may be the one to get through to Will. Brian lost Siobhan, but they weren't actually married and she was ill so he had some notice of it - also he was too busy mopping up the mess he'd made to blame anyone else. Mike lost Betty very suddenly - pity he's been written out as he would have had an inkling of what Will is going through. Anyone else? Actually that seems to me to be quite a high proportion of people losing partners before their time. If only we knew an actuary who could tell us the likelihood of these stats ...

Apologies for typos - cold hands.

Is his a new Kate???

Anyone else?

Joe and his Susan, of course.
Alan has already drawn parallels and offered support, which was enthusiastically accepted by Will. As if.

The response of my son, 4 yrs and 4 months, when my dad died suddenly was to say he‘d make some back to life powder. And he was very earnest, expected it to work, or perhaps half thought it might work. The eldest bro was then 9 and he absolutely understood the truth. Recently the then 4YO was talking about it and he did do something with mud and glitter in the garden. He‘s a science undergrad and seems to know now why it didn’t work. l think he did understand what ‚dead‘ meant - it was just he could still fantasise and still have his wishful thinking. The previous year my mum had died so maybe that helped him a bit. Then l think he was too young to talk about it. A year later he could articulate his thoughts, to a point.

Back to Poppy, l think if she‘d beeen awake when Emmur opened the door she‘d have been really confused, expecting to see her mother. As someone above suggested for Will. I‘m kind of glad we had an episode away from Will and his grief. Doubtless we‘ll be back there tomorrow.

Lillian 🙂

Kate did sound unusually reasonable and happy, didn’t she?

The impression I got was that the vic‘s first wife died of cancer. Maybe we heard Mabel, Amy‘s maternal grandmother, talk of it? InAmbridge there are severalolder widowers - as well as ones named above, Jim, Lewis at LL (he‘s presumably died quietly and nobody knows where the smell is coming from). Liz has had the plumbing checked etc. Susan‘s dad too. But l think Alan‘s the only one widowed with a child afaik.

I agree Adam and lan might well become parents via Lexi but l can’t see a happy ever after.

Jolene of course is a widower and someone with a landlady's professional listening ear...

I can't see the surrogacy SL having a long run. Ian and Adam raising a child to adulthood just ain't gonna happen. Meaning something will have to go wrong.

Kate did sound unusually reasonable and happy, didn’t she?

Well, in her own telling of what happened in SA, yes. But it would be interesting to hear Noli's or someone's version!

I know Pip is the number one annoyance on here, but I find Kate far harder to bear - so self-absorbed. And certainly this evening she didn't feel well-acted, just reading it off the page.

Sid's first wife Polly died in a car crash. Must have been 1980ish as it was not long before I started listening. He was a single dad for a few years until he married Kathy.

Lilian was widowed very young but the ineffable James is the child of her second, much longer marriage.

Christine was also widowed not long after she and her husband had adopted Peter.

Not quite the same thing, but of course when John Archer died Sharon was newly pregnant with Johnny and went off to Leeds ,so nobody in Ambridge knew John had a son for about 15 years.

Things aren't sounding too good between Shula and Alistair, are they?

Why is Alistair being such a flippin' misery?