Christmas is coming, the geese are getting fat, please put a penny in Joe Grundy's hat. Discuss The Archers here.

[PseudoBadger]

Ho ho ho! Will this thread last until Christmas?

I wouldn't be surprised R4. He sounded very convincing to me. A few more attempts like that and she'll soon be remembering how much she loved him and wanted her own little family unit.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if he tries to top himself next. He knows about Greg, of course.

If he was really contrite he'd just leave Ambridge for somewhere far, far away

She took the presents.
She let him talk for far longer than she should have done.
She wasn't furious about him showing at the nativity.
She didn't tell Johnny about Rob being at the door seconds before he came down.

It's not looking good.

When the door was knocked I thought 'I bet that's Knob'. Great to hear Helen stand up to him.

I think what is concerning is that she didn't tell Johnny what had happened. I wonder if she'll tell anyone? Surely if she's learned anything it is that keeping quiet about Knob is the worst thing to do - it almost led to her being convicted because so much of what had happened was just be tween him and her. It was only because Jess agreed to testify that the jury believed her. Interesting too that she's just seen Jess who told her Knob had been round and that she feared him coming round. It was good to hear her her say she was absolutely fine in a determined way that suggested she is absolutely fine, but she needs to report Knob for every breach. It's only a couple of weeks since she was worrying about him getting more access to Jack and worrying about the damage he could have already done to Henry, now she is contemplating reading him Knobs favourite childhood book. Any suggestions what that might be?

Thank you for explaining Dad3 :) I'm crap at maths (you've probably noticed!).

See I find Rob doing that sorry for himself thing really, really creepy. Does anyone remember the Jardines from Brookside - they killed the dad and put him under the patio because he was an abusive fuckwit. He used to do that sorry for himself wheedling tone too and then, just when they relaxed, BLAM, he was back up to full on psycho.

The Jordaches.

The Hobbit Lillian. He was particularly keen on Gollum.

Jordaches! Thank you Lillian. I really am turning into my mum :(

Excellent suggestion Vango - also fits in with her comment about it being too old for him.

Exactly my thought (about Henry's age). I can just imagine Ursula reading it to him at night.

The book could be
"When did you last see your father"!

How many eps ago was Alan saying that Rob was absolutely convinced he was right and everyone else wrong, basically deluded. Are we to imagine he's had some breakthrough in his talks with Alan, or he's just taken on the protective coloration of counselling speak to wheedle his way back?

If he really thinks he can get back with Helen he's off his trolley.

Or is he back in the driver's seat, knowing exactly with buttons to press?

he's just taken on the protective coloration of counselling speak to wheedle his way back

Echt - that's the one.

Re Helen speaking to Rob for longer than she should - she had tried to shut the door on him but he literally had his foot in it. She sounded entirely unconvinced by his wheedling to me - hope I'm right. But yes, he might attempt (or rather, pretend) to commit suicide. Urgh.

I thought Helen sounded strong

Yes - You've reminded me I meant to give her a BOOP!

He's now going to play the saint, all contrite and ever so 'umble. He'll start going to church. Eventually people will say he's absolutely wonderful, that Helen's been too hard on him and , in due course, he'll reapply for access.

I thought she sounded strong but it's very worrying that she didn't say anything to Johnny. She never told anyone he threatened her at the court when she was freed either, did she?

Someone (or many someones) suggested it a few threads ago, but yes, perhaps something has to happen to Jess (what with all the double locked doors etc) before Helen decides to to take further action.

That was well scary.

Difficult to overlook the horror that was Hellrob but I'll just press on and note that Pipsqueak managed to pull her trademark storming out manoeuvre ('I can't deal with this') not once but twice - I think? - in that ep. It really is getting tiresome now.

I'm in 2 minds about Helen. I think she didn't tell Johnny because she didn't want Johnny fussing. I hope that is all it was.

Pipsqueak is insufferable as is her mother.

Pip this week has reminded me of something a male friend said to me in our 20s about co-habiting couples. His view was that women always think they're as good as married when they're living with someone, whereas men think 'wahey, all the benefits of marriage without the commitment'.

Thus men find it very easy to walk away from a many-year relationship when they find 'the one', whereas women believe they are the one without evidence and are very hurt and surprised when things end and it turns out they were just keeping the bed warm.

Obvs not everyone feels or behaves like that but I very much suspect that Pip n Tobes do. All that 'next Christmas', 'our future' shit. Who said there'd be a future Pip?

I think it was good for Helen that Rob over egged the pudding by asking if he might have hope that someday they would get back together. She sounded to me as though she were wavering just before that. He's really got the performance perfected though. I felt a bit sorry for him myself. And of course viewed through any normal lens he is in an awful position. But then you remember he's a self-indulgent deluded sociopath (as proven by his self-pitying whinge last night) and that normal human emotions shouldn't apply.

I also wonder if he knew that was a step too far but wanted to sow the seed in her mind and will try to build on it in the future.

Of course we had the bit earlier where Helen told Johnny that love isn't rational. That seemed to me like a flag that she's maybe a bit less certain than she'd like about her feelings for Rob at the moment.

It would be interesting to see what happened to the children if Helen did go back to Rob. Presumably Pat and Tony could apply for custody and might win given that it's in record how harmful Rob is to children. Not sure I could cope with the volume of Pat-wailing that that storyline would involve.

I think Helen WAS strong. Her 'you are a piece of work' comment showed she saw exactly what he was trying to do with his, 'maybe we can get back together someday' comment. She's not having any of it. If he really did have any insight into how he was with her he would know they could never get back together.
I actually wish Rob would get some serious psychological treatment ( and not just a chat with a friendly vicar) and transform into a normal functioning human being. I think it would be better for Jack to have a fully rehabilitated father than a complete psycho.

I think Helen didn't say anything to Johnny because he's hardly more than a boy, whereas she is - at last - a grown woman.

If Rob had been truly contrite and just wanting to give the boys a present, wouldn't he have asked Alan to deliver them, or left them at the tearoom or something?

ooh. I think Rob will lure Helen into a meeting alone, and then do something horrific which will convince her of his unrehabilitated beastliness, and prompt the long-overdue injunction and police complaint of coercive control. What a bounder. God, he's beyond creepy. Why doesn't she just scream 'fuck off you rapist" at the top of her voice and slam the door?