Roy and Kirsty up a tree, K I S S I N G? Swipe right for The Archers thread and enjoy the Ambridge dating scene.

[PseudoBadger]

Thing is, every time Pip shows up at home or talks to family, she gets an ear bashing about Toby. Now - he's a dick, no doubt about it. I've hated him for months. But I can't blame her for flouncing off because there is no more talking to her family than there is talking to her. Of course Jill has the right to be cantankerous. Doesn't mean we can't call her on it.

Frankly it is getting tedious having the same scene repeated every other day. I suspect they don't have much to fill the airwaves with at the moment.

I also find it strange that some would judge Toby to be controlling. How is he controlling her? He's not dictating how she should do things and he apologised about the still (though I suspect he may well have known it was illegal).

It was a quad bike accident if I recall correctly jenny. David was beside himself and Pip saw the error of her ways.

Also, can I remind the Josh lovers on here that he stole money from the family over the tractor he bought and got Johnny involved in his lies.

Francis all this points to a twat and a user. It does not make him controlling.

Pip is extremely irritating. But Jill is totally mishandling her, forcing her to defend Toby and backing her into a corner. She barely said hello and Jill was off!

Tim Watson on playing Rob. Shoehorns in a Tess reference!

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/13283200

Susan becomes more and more unpleasant as the years go by I like Susan because she is a consistent character - and she's not one dimensional either. The whole photo plot tells you so much about her - as a pp pointed out, she aspires to have a perfect life (her humble beginnings and the dubious nature rest of her family are what drive this desire) she is unable see that actually what she has is rather enviable. She only sees the tiny defects - Neil's dirty nails rather than what a wonderful husband she has, a pillar of the community who built her a dream house with own hands etc etc The photo is supposed to encapsulate her perfect life, she can't see that she doesn't need a photo she just needs to appreciate what she has. She can be extremely irritating, but she can be lovely - she is very human and very believable. Contrast her to Jill at the moment who is irritating because she is not behaving in character - we all know that Jill is right. She is saying what listeners are shouting at the radio every time there is a scene with Pip and Toby. We don't need her to say it - real Jill wouldn't say it to Pip. She might be very vocal privately to David and Ruth, but she would play a different game with Pip. I'm not sure why the SW have written her like that - I think it is because they feel they need to signal the Simon Fairbrother plot to listeners who might not remember it. It's a clumsy way to do it when you consider all the websites and blogs around now where anyone interested could easily check back. So much easier than when I started listening and had to ask my mum for background details (which she couldn't always remember and would have to ask my aunt!) It reminds me of an English teacher I once had who used to instruct us that when writing an essay on any particular novel it was safe to assume the person marking it would have read the book. That used to be the approach of the SW - not any more!

Gherkins exactly - and David did the same the other day, pre-still.

Dear SWs - Pip's family does not approve of Toby. WE GET IT!

Sorry for long post - my excuse is I haven't been here for ages

I think they are signaling that Jill isn't well, she is behaving really out of character.

I think that Jill is acting in character Lillian. She has previous form and I would expect Roof to tell her to stop sticking her nose in. Remember that time when Jill decided to inflict a casserole on the newly-married David and Roof? - she burst in, unannounced, whilst they were, ahem, doing what newly-married couples do. Roof spent a lot of her early married years fending off an interfering Jill.
If we are going to accuse people of being controlling, then we can add Jill to the list. I have realised recently that I have never warmed to Jill, she was only bearable because she was Phil's OH.

This is all a very heavy handed set up so that when Pip dumps Toby and starts going out with (and eventually marry) Rex, Jill will eventually have to eat her words about Fairbrethren never being any good/there will be a rift that never heals. And while I think it's in character for her to interfere, she has always been very gentle with Pip on the unsuitable boyfriends - she took a very softly softly approach with Jude. And they really are labouring it.

I don't think Toby is like Rob - he's just a common or garden cocklodger. Pip however is behaving in a very Helen like way in her stubborn and completely illogical defence of a shit partner.

Whoever said upthread that Pip undergoes a complete personality transformation with every boyfriend is spot on. She doesn't actually have a personality does she?

Interesting article by Tim Watson, but in praising the SWs and the way the story's been framed he does rather gloss over how infrequent it is that women react to abuse by trying to stab their husbands.

I began to wonder last night if Jill knows something about Brighton that no-one else yet knows. I couldn't think of any other explanation for the ferocity of her attack. And to be fair to Ruth, regardless of how she really feels, I think I'd react in the same way if my mother in law spoke to a daughter of mine like that.

Toby, to me, isn't in the least bit controlling. He thinks he's charm personified and a magnet for the ladies. Pip could disabuse him very swiftly but she's going to hang on to him now to make her point.

My DM is approaching 90 and she hates db's 'partner,' every time I see her she says exactly the same things about the woman. (This has gone on for many years) She has some reason but it's HIS life. IMO and E Jill has similar age related obsessiveness.

On this occasion Francis I don't think Pip was even rude! Jill was really goading her, getting more and more personal in her attack on Toby. Pip was right to leave. Jill wasn't prepared to listen to her at all so she just removed herself from the situation.

Re. The defending of Toby. She likes him, probably does think he's a little exciting, but would tire of him sooner if she wasn't now trying to prove a point to her family. I don't think he calls the shots. She's the one who is going to control that relationship.

Susan is now just another comedy working class character- "let's laugh at the pleb getting above her station." It's really annoying.

I don't see her like that Bertrand. To me she's just a gossipy snob with few redeeming features. I never feel that she's presented to us as a comedic character, unlike Joe Grundy and his many ridiculous escapades. I actually thought that her comedy calendar storyline was a bit of a damp squib.

Plus, I don't think a family portrait is any indicator of class (except when done in oils - and not from a photo!).

Er - say what?

I agree with Vango I think Toby is supposed to be a devastatingly handsome ladies man (think Hugh Grant in Bridget Jones). Pip is very physically attracted to him so even though is totally useless and a complete arse he can always win her round. Jill is right when she says he's exactly like his father - he is. I think it's also fair to say the older you get the less susceptible you are to charming types. Jill doesn't know everything we know of course, but she is absolutely right about him and it's only a matter of time before Pip finds out. The problem for me is I don't think Toby has either been written or acted in a way that makes him fall into this category of man. I'm not a fan of Hugh Grant, but I understand the sort of man Daniel Cleaver is supposed to be in Bridget Jones. Toby is and has always been an arse as far as I'm concerned and I just can't believe Pip would ever have fallen for him. This essential failing is what makes this entire plot entirely unbelievable for me. I also think Jill's reaction is excessive to the point where she almost appears unhinged. I agree she might have been interfering in the past, but this usually comes from a good place i.e. Wanting to make life easier for her favourite son and also from the complications of Ruth literally taking her place as the farmer's wife at Brookfield and the difficulty of having to move out of her home to make way for the next generation - if she sometimes treats Brookfield as if it were her own home I think we can excuse this.

Oh, yes I agree- - about the gossipy snob thing- she is awful. But there is something very unkind about the way her attempts to "better" herself are portrayed. Yes, they are ridiculous. But we are definitely being led to think she looks ridiculous in her dress, that she was going to get wet outside the studio place and get all bedraggled and then have Kiera throw up on her. All very "putting her in her place".