Rob - dead? No, no, he's, er, resting. He's just pining for the Canadian plains. As Helen is taken into custardy, discuss the Archers here.

[PseudoBadger]

24 hours for 1 thread!!

My youngest child is 10 and I remember being asked about abuse during one appointment with a MW. But it was very cursory - BTW I have to ask you , you don't take drugs do you ? And you have enough family support and you're not being abused ? Ok then . I remember the MW didn't even look up from the sheet she was ticking.

How many abused women would actually admit it to a midwife though. I remember being asked about it 21 years ago, I also remember being asked if I wanted the baby and if it was planned. It was all very scripted and felt as though they didn't give a care anyway. I probably did give a look and a huff and say something like "what do you think" because I remember the midwife getting arsy and giving me a lecture and thinking she could have put it so much better and got better information through small talk and introductory chit chat. "Oh hello Mrs Belle, it's lovely to meet you, what a pretty ring, have you been married for long, are you and your dh excited about the baby?". And it could be better still if women had continuity of care and were able to build up proper holistic relationships with those caring for them. I still remember being irked by being asked questions about my partner and saying I have a husband actually. That was a really good appointment looking back .

Only up to page 29 and need to go to work so apols if this has been said in the interim :
In yesterday's episode Pat and Tony were heard having finally got Henry to sleep and Children's services having just left.I understood that they had turned up very quickly so in the middle of the night, I think Tony said something about them being used to dealing with vulnerable families but surely they could see they weren't 'that type of family' . I thought that was an interesting comment to mean - this sort of thing doesn't happen to people like us. I don't think we will hear it but I'm sure Children's Services will have asked him or ask Henry in a sensitive way about his feelings towards Rob, maybe using puppets. Personal experience here I'm afraid

Thanks for the article, Green - this is reinforcing my hope that they will find bad stuff on Rob aside from the EA and either use that in court or use it to force Rob not to ask for full sentencing etc.

cheminotte I noticed that comment too. They can see we are not like that.

And

Adam will find out soon. Adam will contact Charlie. Charlie knows what Rob is like and will give evidence of his blackmail etc. Although may well destroy Adam's relationship with Ian.

I think Helen will end up in prison or a psychiatric facility for a while - this will play out over a long time in TA terms, couple of years maybe before she is eventually freed after appeal.

The bit I don't get is that Helen moved in with him without meeting his family or any of his friends. I've always wondered this Beaufort - I've always thought the best way to get the measure of someone you otherwise know nothing about is to meet some of their family and friends. I think what Knob told her about his family (after the dinner party no show for example) is irrelevant - it's like men who've left their wives who almost invariably (in my experience) describe them as being insane. Knob painted a picture that suited him - to make people feel sorry for him and it certainly worked - it was from that moment that Pat became Patbot. We've since met Ursula and she certainly didn't fit his description - which makes it all the more surprising that no one thought back to the dinner party no show and thought to question it. The impression I got from Ursula was that she and Knob were very much in cahoots and Bruce and Miles were nowhere to be seen. I think they can't stand Knob and they've cast him out for some unspoken despicable deed that his over-indulgent mummy is only too ready to forgive. On the diminished responsibility front, my experience comes from reporting court cases rather than any legal training, but my understanding is that it's not an easy get out. You end up somewhere like Broadmoor without a fixed term (unlike a prison sentence which even if it is a life sentence will rarely mean life and often only equates to about ten years).

I would expect Peggy went home and called Jenny who would call Adam

Helen is family so I don't think that counts as gossiping. If my niece was in this position I would be doing everything I could to help

"Helen is family so I don't think that counts as gossiping"

Jesus Christ- of course it doesn't! Any more than Peggy wanting to know what was happening is "gawping".

Only on "my little family" mumsnet..........

But is Charlie's evidence actually that helpful? Does he know anything that can demonstrate that knob was the kind of person who would present a real and plausible threat to either Helen or Henry? I suppose if there were actual evidence that he has killed Stefan - but being a books-cooking, culvert-blocking failed employee is surely not helpful. They don't want a picture of him as someone who other people might prefer out of the way, but someone who is dangerous to the point of a self-defence plea being plausible.

Well I found the 'gawper' accusations thrown at Peggy odd. - agree that extended family seems to be frowned upon on here sometimes but then some people would think my parents are over involved in my life so I'm never sure where the line is

If it turns out rob did kill stefan then I suppose that could suggest he's a dangerous man

Do feel we are heading into Dallas territory here!!

My worry is that all there bits and pieces add up to rob not being a very nice person, which the prosecution could spin to 'someone Helen doesn't want to be married to and wants to get rid of'.

So where is Ursula?

I'm catching up this morning and someone has said something which has changed my view a bit....

I think you can snap and do things which seem mad. I'm not going to put this very well (and I'm going to have to name change after this), but I remember one time with my ex, after we split. We had to stay in the same house for a few weeks and he was seeing OW and bringing her back to the house. The whole thing was a pressure cooker even though he wasn't EA or physically abusive (just a knob). One night he said something and I snapped and went crazy. I scared myself half to death because I lost it, in a way I never thought I was capable of. If I'd had a knife in my hand, I'd have stabbed him, I'm almost sure of it.

However I would have called the ambulance afterwards I think. I fled the house to my friend (with the kids) and never went back, but that was because I knew he wasn't badly injured (although according to him he was injured, I didn't stay around to find out).

So I dunno. He gave her the knife (whether that's believable or not) and taunted her, then went for her child. I'm my situation, in that very specific place where those circumstances were exactly what it took for me to lose it..... I think I'd have done what Helen did. And she'd put up with much more than me.

Off to name change....

If she genuinely thought he was dead why would she call an ambulance though?

Tbh, we can pick the night apart as much as we like - the events are whatever the sw decide no matter how plausible.

One thing I've learnt from soc is that gorings, floods and stabbings make terrible radio

Ursula is probably on her way to the hospital.

We mustn't forget the power of the Ambridge Fairy.

True, if he's dead no ambulance needed.

Iisme - that's exactly what I was coming on to say this morning. It doesn't matter if all the village and others say he wasn't a very nice person- homophobic, a liar, dodgy businessman, blocked the culvert etc. It's not ok to try and kill someone just because they weren't very nice. Only evidence that he was abusive to Helen - which would lead to diminished responsibility. And/or that she perceived him to be an actual threat to Henry and herself that night, so she acted in self/child defence. I guess evidence of his violence to others would help here, but I would imagine you would need more evidence of his violence than what we currently know.

Although I am not in the justice system, so this is just my gut feeling.

Just looking at last night's discussions re Sunday night.

Surely it is relevant that she wouldn't have been holding the knife if he hadn't goaded her re Greg & then made her / encouraged her to take the knife?? It's not as if she saw him going to hit Henry ( & to me it sounded as if he was about to hit him, not just grab him). and went to the drawer to get the knife. But of course, difficult to prove.

As for abuse of Henry, it has only been emotional abuse. Difficult, maybe impossible to prove. But in RL incredibly damaging for the child.

So yes, SOC has devised a SL whereby Helen looks like the abuser, Rob the victim. The evidence makes it look as if she wanted to kill him.

I agree that WA should feel used by SOC & the SW team. SOC main concern is ratings, not helping victims of DA.

I am also incredibly pissed off that whichever way this goes, SOC has criminalised Helen.

iisme all this evidence could lend credence to Helen's claim of EA, though. Being an incompetent wanker doesn't make you an abuser, obviously, but it might make it harder for him to claim his "innocence."

English Fern. That was a horrible situation you were in and it's completely understandable that you snapped. I am glad you got yourself and your children away.

I am really hoping a previous poster was correct in surmising that the mobile may have recorded the whole thing.

Another thought on diminished responsibility - Knob would love that. That's what he's being trying to achieve for weeks :"You see I was right, you're not well darling, you need help. A nice long stay in this hospital for the criminally insane is what's best for you you can see that can't you? They'll make sure you take your drugs. Henry can go to boarding school and Mum and I will look after the baby - just until you get better." I would argue Helen was never more in her right mind than on Sunday night - she had finally seen Knob for what he was - which is why I can't understand why she didn't get out while she could. Bearing in mind we couldn't actually see what happened (a bit like Tony and the bull) I would prefer to think Knob gave Helen the knife and then went to attack Henry and that she was acting to defend her child.