No more walking on eggshells for Helen! Heading for an eggsplosive Easter weekend in The Archers - will Helen Archer be resurrected by the end of this thread?

[PseudoBadger]

Helen knows she's not cracking up - Knob is an eggomaniac.

Are we eggshausted with this storyline?

Querky, my mother often comments on the fact that Jenny and Lillian have had an about-face, that Jenny used to be the naughty one and Lillian was the goody-two-shoes. She well remembers the shock of the single parent storyline back then (and then went on herself to follow suit!)

We spend a lot of time fruitlessly speculating about the characters, their background, what makes them tick

well true, fair enough, I do that , too. :)

For me, Miles & Ursula-husband, meh. They aren't present. Ursula is 1-dimensional. Her only opportunities to be horrible are via Knob, so Knob's mindset is only one that matters (and maybe I'm still just not as interested in him as you guys).

I could feel sorry for Knob if it comes out he was abused, but he's still 100% responsible for being his own toe-rag self.

For some reason Dd just asked me if MacBeth is a tragic hero... very appropriate?? I said MacBeth was weak and I could feel sorry for him, but he's still a villain not the victim.

I don't like Jane Garvey so that probably coloured my view. Also I didn't hear the whole thing because RL got in the way.
JG got my hackles up when she introduced the topic, talking about TA as 'the farming soap'. It then felt like someone had done some research, trawling social media such as MN, to get some questions to throw at SOC eg PatBot. But because JG isn't a fan, she couldn't counter his rebuttals or go for the killer follow-up question.
Is no-one on Woman's Hour a TA fan? They must have been fighting over who got the piece because they must have forseen that it would generate a huge audience and animated response on Twitter etc (you only have to ask Feedback!)

Querky every single survey shows TA has a predominantly middle (to late middle) aged audience - that was certainly evident at the Academic Archers conference and I'm pretty sure our own thread survey showed the same - so I was slightly taken aback by that comment. (Sorry, can't recall who said it and I'm sure it's not wrong to extrapolate from the assumed average age of MN posters generally - but I suspect this thread skews to the upper end of average.)

But ... R4 I thought everyone loved JG?

Anyone irritated by the way that WH dealt with the accusation of TA becoming like EE? To my knowledge no one suggesting in snobbish way that DA/EA couldn't happen to a nice middle class woman. Issue is the endless over-hyped, dramatic story lines that should segue neatly into the familiar duff-duff-duff-duff

R4, don't like Jane Garvey. Really? Oh, I do. The one I can't abide is Emma -effing- Barnett. Had to switch off when she came on talking about lettuce planting or whatever it was.

JG takes the bright-and-breezy, wry-look-at-life too far for my liking. Everything is a hoot, she seems to lack depth almost said gravitas but decided I'd get flamed for it.

Nothing wrong with gravitas (word or concept). That is interesting. I do always love JM's sensitive and respectful approach to topics. If you have an issue with JG then surely EB is all the things you dislike to the power of about ten?! I find her rather sneery and inarticulate, but now I'm worried about being flamed.

How often is EB on? I never seem to hear her.

It's JM I can't stand. I hardly ever listen to WH for that reason (and a good few others, to be fair). I thought JG did very well and it was my impression (not to be relied on, though) that both JG and JM were confirmed TA listeners/fans.

Qerky & Gruach, it was me (1972) - talking specifically about Jack Archer's alcoholic death & how Peggy might have dealt with him.

I didn't say none of us would have heard TA in passing - just that none of us would have been listening then (ie to remember any details. & nobody has yet... )

My mother was a Mrs Dale's Diary listener in the 50s so I never heard TA back then but I doubt if they went into relationship stuff in anything like the detail they do now anyway.

I wasn't born in 1972 but I wonder if Peggy's experience actually makes her less likely (than usual) to be sympathetic to Helen.

By all accounts Jack was a 'traditional' abuser - alcoholic, feckless waste of space with little control over anything.

Rob is the exact opposite. It would never occur to Peggy that this charming, attentive man could also be an abuser.

Peggy is typical of the generational view of DA.

Iijk, - Stickerrocks has summed up my thoughts exactly. The reason so many of us are interested in Knob's family, particularly his parents, is because of the influence they have over our adult selves.

I have seen this myself. My father was abusive to my mother and life was sometimes very difficult at home. I have 3 siblings and I think we all struggle at times as a result of our upbringing, but strive to be as unlike him as possible.

I do think Arsula was introduced to highlight the way children learn abusive behaviour from their parents. But it really hasn't worked for me as it's taken the emphasis away from Knob. And how often would a mother work in tandem with her son to abuse his wife ? The boarding school saga, the hot bath, burnt toad in the hole & general control of Hellin all seemed to be planned together. It makes the SL less credible.

Now realise that was quite a late reply Iijk as many typed quicker

I must admit this storyline has made me question a few things about my own life.

My Dad was very controlling and I suspect would now be classed as EA, although that's difficult to write.

My own DH can also be quite controlling - more in a spoilt brat way than abusive.

This whole storyline has made me realise the behaviour I have tolerated all my life - and the reasons why I shouldn't tolerate it anymore.

I have stood up for myself far more over the last couple of months and, although DH has huffed and puffed a bit, the sky hasn't fallen in and things are much better.

I'm also getting CBT from our GP surgery.

So even though I'm far from abused, I'm personally very thankful for it and so many aspects have struck a chord.

recyclingbag I agree re: Peggy. And, by the way, what a snarky old cuss she was on Easter Sunday - I think she'd have tested my legendary patience, so small wonder Hell snapped at her. But, yet again, Patbot seemed oblivious to the part Peggy had played in causing Hell to eventually retaliate in exasperated fashion, preferring instead to simply bleat how worried she was about Hell. I don't think being driven to snap at your bitching granny is too much cause for concern, surely?

recycling - Perhaps that's what has caught listeners' attention most - the slow realisation of something one has never given a name to.

I'm imaging a great swathe of spouses, partners, adult children across the country gradually re-setting boundaries and refusing to put up with behaviour they previously tolerated.

I was surprised that so many WH listeners were apparently complaining that this storyline is Eastenderisation. I'm not saying that EE wouldn't do it, but I would have thought they're inherently unlikely to go for a slow burner like this and are more likely to go for a dramatic story involving physical abuse. What would concern me much more would be if they go for an Eastender style conclusion with loads of shouting and screaming, at least one corpse and a long drawn-out trial SL.

They did say that abuse helplines had noted a 20% increase in calls, which does suggest that this SL has made many more people realise what EA is and that it is not acceptable.

Yes Grauch, I think you're right.

I also have a friend who is definitely in a Helen type relationship.

She can half see it but all we can do is keep saying 'that is not acceptable behaviour' to her.

I'm disappointed Rob has hit her, as it almost undermines the other abuse and reinforces the 'it's not abuse if he doesn't hit me' viewpoint.

That is so many women's line in the sand but people put up with an awful lot of shit without that ever happening.

elpth My assumption about the missed dinner party (the one where Rob's parents just didn't turn up) at the time was that Rob had never even invited them. The 'no-show' then not only gave him grist to reinforce to Helen that his parents didn't approve of his relationshio with her (so keeping her on the back foot and making her all the more appreciative of his sacrifices to be with her) but more importantly, it changed Pat & Tony's impression of him. I recall this as being one of the first incidents where they began to soften towards him, they discussed afterwards how they felt sorry for him, how he's obviously felt humiliated, how the more abrasive aspects of his personality were understandable given his parents treated him so badly....

I remember it like that too, plimsolls

so how come Patbot & Tony didn't show any surprise AT ALL when Ursula turned up an apparently charming & normal human being who gets on well with Rob???

Crap continuity ( retired archivist )

Recyclingbag, DH listened to the Sunday film with growing unease and finally burst out, 'But listening to him being so normal sometimes and then so horrible makes me wonder if I'm abusive and just don't realise it.'

He doesn't usually listen (just hears me ranting about it) so last week's multi-parter was a bit in at the deep end.

DD assured him that he was grumpy and paranoid but not a controlling git. I think that made him feel better...

Birds sounds like my DH