The Archers. No need to share the thread with anyone else darling, we can have a lovely time just us together. It must be Henry's bedtime.

[PseudoBadger]

New thread for the Omnibus.

Do you honestly think that SOC would research the detail of what goes on at midwife appointments that thoroughly? In a 13 minute episode we only have time for a quick discussion of why Helen is over doing it & looking a bit peaky with Rob in the room. The midwife is bound to agree with Rob that Helen should give up work immediately, because that makes a better storyline than a discussion of ketones (not sure if they even existed when I had my baby ). This time next week we'll all be discussing why Helen has been banned from leaving the cottage by Rob and Pat. Even the CA now suggests we're heading for a radio version of Room.

I wouldn't put it past Knob to switch the urine pots before Hellin goes to her mw appointment. I bet he knows exactly what is tested for as he will have done his research when they found out SOK was on its way.

It's extraordinary that Knob is saying things like "Look at the size of you" to defend the proposition that Helen can't be anorexic. It's pretty clear from what everyone is saying that in general she is visibly thin, so the reference to size can only refer to the bump and, presumably, extra boobage directly consequential on the pregnancy. And if he disapproves of that sort of weight increase then he really is utterly stupid.

Am I imagining it, did Knob say something to Helen about "I'm sure you wouldn't punish yourself and our baby by not eating"? Which at least suggests that he's aware the baby may suffer for it. Yet everything he says about her size is textbook anorexia-inducing.

I have no memory of the previous anorexia storyline, but I suspect that Helen showed very similar behaviour then to what she's showing now - i.e. denying that there's anything wrong, making up reasons why she might not look well, and getting ultra defensive if anyone seems to be getting close to the truth. Surely Patbot should be on the lookout for that? Admittedly she seems at last to be beginning to wonder about it, but she's far too eager to take Knob's word for it that Helen is fine when she knows Knob has nil experience of how Helen's anorexia manifests itself.

Pat is alert, she thinks Knob is au fait with Helen's history. She thinks he has Helen's best interests at heart and has no reason to think otherwise, she knows Helen won't listen to her - Helen's anorexia is the whole reason Pat pussyfoots around her all the time and treats her like a special snowflake. I think she imagines that as Knob is living with her and appears to be taking great care of her - stopping her working, driving etc etc so she's doesn't tire herself out that he is looking after her and would notice if she wasn't eating. She doesn't know anything about Knob's war on sausages and black pudding disapproval - I think as a pp said she is probably relieved to have someone else looking after her at last because Helen hasn't been the easiest person to take care of in the past. Helen is a brilliant character because she has been so annoying and insufferable in the past and in so many ways she is her own worst enemy, very much the author of her own misfortune and yet it is still possible to feel intensely sorry for her and to hope against hope that someone will rescue her even though once rescued I'm sure she'd go back to being her old smug and insufferable self. Pat is on the case - but where is Tony?? They would be talking about it Pat's concerns - and he knows Knob cheats at cricket.

But no matter how au fait Knob is with Helen's history, he's got no experience of the actuality of her anorexia, so he won't necessarily notice that she's showing the same behaviour. I know that the reality is that he has no interest in noticing, but the point is that Pat shouldn't necessarily take his word for it that Helen's fine because she of all people must know how successfully Helen can hide the signs that she's not eating.

I don't think they have researched it thoroughly but I do enjoy that both this thread and the sl lead to such in depth analysis. We could write a thesis on "Knob: a psychoanalysis of the Ambridge abuser"

I'll proof read it

I was once interviewed (over the telephone) by a researcher from the BBC about my own experience of having an eating disorder and being pregnant. They contacted me saying they were considering making a documentary and were at the 'researching the subject stage'.

Surely a production like The Archers WOULD properly research this sort of thing?? If they research for potential shows?

Rob ran a cattle breeding unit. He knows about nutrients. He does know exactly what he's doing.
He can't be so thick that he doesn't realise his comments about her size drive her to starve herself. They are made in such a calculated manner that they have to be deliberate. She made a detailed confession to him about her illness, what caused it, how she felt about herself.
He lives with her and hasn't seen her eat more than a lettuce leaf for two months. He makes elaborate meals and throws a tantrum when she doesn't eat - and it's all about the trouble he's taken.
Others are commenting that she's thin. She's visibly dreadfully pale. Anyone normal would be worried and glad of support from her mother but he's intent on driving this away.
(I know they're fictional but we hear her rejecting food at home regularly so this is the info we are being given.)

It's the WHY that I can't figure out. Why take a risk with the health of the mother of his precious baby? The only explanation that makes sense to me is that he's mentally ill.

Helen did struggle during her previous pregnancy. I remember Kirsty being concerned about her over exercising and undereating. I also seem to remember the MW measuring her a lot.

Perhaps he's just such a narcissist that he can't imagine the baby suffering because he hasn't given permission for it. I mean he intends the baby to be fine so he can't imagine that not happening.

Isn't such extreme narcissism abnormal in itself?

From lowfield
"Pat and Helen congratulate Emma, and then obsessive Helen reels off dietary rules to avoid morning sickness and suggests attending antenatal classes together. A taken-back Emma is non-committal.Kathy joins Pat and Helen for supper now Kenton is "finally helping out with Jamie". Helen has a portion half the size of Kathy's and says eating little and often suits her while pregnant. She is not eating for two; only 300 extra calories a day are required at this stage. We also hear how she isn't happy at having to cut back from her full gym workout.Pat is worried about Helen, especially the obsessiveness. Kathy points out the midwife should notice if anything is wrong but Pat thinks they look more for obesity. Helen is counting every last calorie"

I'd forgotten about her lecturung Emmur.

small I remember an occasion where she went on this epic walk and then didn't eat at the end of it, and crying when she was told she was measuring small and had this lightbulb moment when she connected her behaviour to the baby she was carrying.

Something we haven't really talked about is this: the baby was conceived by rape. How is Helen processing that? Is this determination to control with food a way of processing her mixed feelings of love and hate towards the baby?

I think rob massively overestimates his ability to get Helen eating again when she reaches the brink. He thinks he's in charge.

"Helen limps in; she has twisted her knee, so she won't be able to do so much exercise. As usual, she doesn't plan to have much lunch which worries Pat."

" Now she is even more worried because Helen tells her that she will be eating even less, to compensate for exercising less; she knows exactly how many calories to cut out!"

Sorry, cross posted small she was counting every last calorie and I remember the comments about 300 calories at this stage. It was a scan where the baby measured small or a midwife measuring her that caused her to breakdown to Pat or Tom?

Then she was obsessively busy with 2 jobs, painting, cleaning showers, standing on chairs, and still limping on the sore knee.

Pat worries she doesn't know how to stop.

So I suppose if their previous main concerns centered over her doing too much, running around and exercusing then you can see why they might like Knob's approach of keep her in with her feet up.at all times

"Helen comes back from a midwife appointment and is clearly unsettled."

Then a few days later

"nd Helen admits that the midwife has told her the baby is too small and she's really, really worried. Pat tries to reassure her but Helen says the midwife wants to keep an eye on it. Helen finally admits she may not know what she is doing and maybe it's her fault. She wanted everything to be perfect and she's messed it up like everything she tries to do."

So...given this...why aren't the MW keeping a closer eye on her?

And is H so unhappy about the pg that she knows this might mske the baby small and she is doing it deliberately with that aim? (I think it more likely that as she has an ED and life is horrific she really cannot eat but I wonder if this is what the SW are aiming at now I reread the old summaries)

I did wonder if when Knob told Pat off for organising the shelves in the shop she was about to discover the hidden sausages and ask why they weren't being more prominently displayed.

scary sorry x post. Yes I was flitting back and forth to lowfield. There was a bit about the long walk but that was after the MW visit and after she had apparently started eating more and finally realised she didn't know everything. The long walk was ab excuse for her tiredness so she could blank T again only to go to.tje shop and do a massive stock take.

I had forgotten just horrible she was to Tony though (although tbf he was very intransigent to start with). But when he came round she was still very harsh - the business with the baby monitor and the mobile.

This was telling: Peggy made it clear she was dusappoibted Helen was alone and Helen also said Tony clearly thought she was a failure because she didn't have a man.

I think that is one of the key reasons she showed Rob off so much and now cannot leave.

She feels judged.

I had also forgotten Henry's birth and Nigel's death coincided.

Abd then Helen totally changed and completely chilled out and eventually admitted she couldn't do everything. I do clearly remember people (e.g. Emma and Tom) being amazed and pleased at the change in her.

I had forgotten just how horrible she was to Tony though - she was a horrible character all round. Which is why the storyline is clever to have brought us round to feeling so sorry for her (to the extent that we have almost forgotten how much we used to hate her) Very good script-writing and great acting on her part. Brilliant that her faults and weaknesses are at the root of what is happening to her (not brilliant in that it is happening, quite the opposite, but brilliant that it is not just some random plot device foisted upon her for dramatic effect and requiring her to act against character).

Yes. Maybe that is why they dropped the Lillian/Paul thing. The affair was plausible but it turning so quickly was maybe going to be difficult to pull off.

Very interesting reading about the background, I wasn't listening back during Helen's first pregnancy.

Thanks!

I wonder if in some way Rob resents the fact that the baby potentially takes her attention away from him, and also that he can't control much to do with the baby.

Congratulations Jessie wonderful news!