Knob throttlers form an orderly queue at Blossom Hill Cottage! Discuss the Archers on the Official Thread

[PseudoBadger]

Do you know that I was 3 months pregnant when the first thread started - DD was 2 yesterday

That must also mean that Poppy Grundy's 2nd birthday has passed by unremarked upon...

I too thought does H know she is being abused? It is hard to name it when it is you. And yes, did Jess leave Rob or the other way round? or a bit of both. I think I remember Jess' car being filled with belongings by her. Although I think we know she has wanted him back. I wonder if he will call Jess to say that although Ethan is not his, he will soon have his own baby - to rub his nose in it.

And yes, the next few months will be hard listening. Although do we think that H has completely changed her mind? I am surprised that despite the possible rape, she has not tried to rationalise some more. (It is possible that I have not listened properly)

Rob is so fantastically unwelcoming to guests isn't he? Always the slightly too long pause ......oh...... you didn't tell me you were expecting visitors darling...... polite, but cold enough to make them feel uncomfortable and that they should leave - did it to Piggoi today, Fallon & Emma in the past. Soon noone will dare drop in ........

When the midwife started explaining non violent abuse it did feel a bit 'listen up audience and take note'

Although Helen is clearly being physically abused even if it has only happened once.

Referring to Jess as 'my wife' was probably to indicate that as far as he is concerned she is still his possession.

I thought Helen was quite snappish with Rob when he questioned why Peggy was there.
The midwife sounded a bit wet but who knows. There are plenty of very clued up midwives working in rural areas who know they are just as likely to find abuse in cosy cottages as they are in city flats.
I've known a couple of people who've gone on to have children with new partners having had the first baby alone. In both cases the pregnancy was eagerly anticipated and hugely exciting for them both. Helen is basically expressing a lack of interest and enthusiasm which doesn't fit with the rest of the professed set up. If I were the midwife I would be thinking I needed to keep an eye on what is clearly a vulnerable woman who's partner is damn well perfect and enthusiastic whilst she seems only passively accepting of the situation.

He's lost control of her through the rape. He's playing mr nice guy to try and get her back

Tbh I don't understand the rape. He had her exactly where he wanted her and if the rape was just to impregnate her, well he's conniving enough to have done it in another way (split condom?).

Well.......two things come to mind. One - hard to show sabotaged condom on the radio. I mean if we just heard some strange latex like sounds and him cackling evilly we'd probably think he murdered the whole village.

But secondly and more significantly - we heard the rape and it was quite clear that he was forcing himself upon Helen in a place and at a time that she didn't want. But from Rob's POV - he would say he genuinely loves Helen and is proud of their family. He wants to feel love within it. Now by his actions he's actually acting in an unloving way and destroying what he had but he doesn't see that. He is I think an extremely selfish and controlling individual who has never been able to cope with challenge. When he encounters it all he can do is eliminate it and every time he does that , that just helps him feel more and more in control and more and more that he has a right to be in control. It's self perpetuating. So what we see is for example him pushing Helen away from the shop and in to dependence on him. What he sees though is that the shop was a rival for Helen's attention and a challenge to him so he eliminated it and look - isn't it marvellous that she now has all the time in the world for him. He was right to do it (in his mind). So with the rape - Helen was refusing to get pregnant so he planned a seduction because after all he's Rob Titchener, there is no other world view but his. The only acceptable end to the seduction was intercourse and that's what he ensured happened because in the same way that he's ignored and eliminated any other challenge, Helen's refusal became just another challenge to be eliminated. I very much doubt he will ever admit or accept that it was rape. He might perhaps accept that yes he feels his views should come first and if he and Helen disagree he expects to win but I don't think he would ever accept that he is abusing her.
It's the cycle of abuse though and what I suspect they will show is the cycle getting smaller and smaller and the honeymoon periods getting shorter and shorter. If we count the rape as one episode of abuse and the night she told him she was pregnant to stop him hitting her (which is how I interpret what was happening in that scene) as another then that's about 7 weeks. Which means that Helen will be lucky to get out of the first trimester without something else scary happening. Whatever it is, it will involve a situation where he is challenged and has to crush the challenge. I feel quite anxious about the antenatal testing conversation tbh.

Yes interesting. It is definitely ramping up. Still think soc is going for a Xmas denouement

I didn't think he had even give her the chance for consensual sex first though

northern excellent observations. There will always be a christmas thiing. Last year we had Tom and Kirsty (and there will always be a comical Grundy christmas thing). I am not sure it will be a EE moment of high drama though with H&K.

I'm hoping words have been had with soc and he has been handed a guide on writing with subtlety. Although there have been a few sledgehammer scenes lately!

I hope they end the Helrob sl in a realistic way

Excellent analysis Northern. In fact he's controlling in all areas of his life - blocking the culvert (to protect Berrow Farm), getting rid of Stephan when he realised they were on to him, cutting his links with his family for fear of what they might tell Hellin, cheating at cricket etc and whenever he is challenged - by Charlie over the culvert, by Jim at the Open Farm day, by the hunt sab or Christine refusing to jump into his boat etc he loses his temper. Whenever there is any unexpected interruption - Fallon or Peggy turning up unannounced he is nervy and snappish, but trying to hold it together for the sake of appearances. He doesn't want another job because he wants to be in control which he thinks he can be at Bridge Farm - Tom is proving less of a pushover than he thought so I think we might see a flare up between those two. I found the midwife scene uncharacteristically sledge-hammery for this particular plot. Presumably it was intended to show us that Helen doesn't realise she's being abused at the moment, but now her eyes have been opened to the possibility that she might be. I actually the think the actress has been showing this gradual dawning in much more subtle ways. Also would a midwife actually come to your house for a first appointment?

I wondered that about the mw. In both cases I didn't see a mw until after by 12 week scan (as my dr put it - well a lot of people don't get that far - nice). It didn't seem like they were doing it as they think it's a high risk pregnancy as they didn't know her medical history

Excellent analyses, Northern and Lillian.

Was the midwife visiting because she's in a community team? Maybe as it's a low risk pregnancy Helen won't go to the hospital routinely.

Good grief - my heart is already thumping uncomfortably and that's just from reading about the domestic terrorisation they're making us listen to.

Very wonderful analysis northern and Lil'G.

And yes, Helen was decidedly snippy about Rob's reaction to Peggy's presence. Awful that the midwife seems to have joined the Rob fan club. We're all waiting for Kirsty - what if she comes back changed and Rob-adoring?

Presumably it was intended to show us that Helen doesn't realise she's being abused at the moment, but now her eyes have been opened to the possibility that she might be.

Is that the right way to see it? Surely she's known for some time that something isn't right with their relationship, but has been trying to convince herself it's not as bad as it seems. So she might not have labelled it abuse, but when the m/w raised it, she knew that it could apply to her situation and deflected it by talking about physical abuse. In any case, with Rob hovering, wasn't there naturally a reluctance to cross that line and admit to someone else that there may be abuse?

From a dramatic point of view it feels like maybe they've set it up for the situation to get gradually worse until Helen does find a way to get the m/w on her own and admit that there is abuse.

(Now I'm wondering if there was one joint analysis or two separate analyses ...)

Much better put DDD. That's what I meant - she's not wanted to think of it as abuse as she's always keen to find excuses for Knob to avoid spoiling the picture of the lovely life she thinks she's built for herself (she is as controlling as he is in a different way - doesn't want to admit she might have been wrong). Now the mw has used the word it's out there fuelling her unease.

Yes, it's the whole "cognitive dissonance" thing with Helen (which the s/w may be over-doing) - people are going to start asking about the pregnancy now and she will give a bright, brittle response, but we'll know inside she's wondering why she doesn't feel excited about a baby, and denying to herself the reason she doesn't feel excited.

But the way the mw asked wasn't encouraging as she did it in a 'well I have to ask but it's obviously not the case' way

Below is the lowfield summary - she did sound a bit like Jess! I didn't realise the eating disorder returned when she was last pregnant either

Rob's important engagement is a visit from the midwife, Ellie, who sounds remarkably like Jess. He seems determined not to leave Helen alone with her, but has to when his mobile rings. Ellie seizes the opportunity to ask if Helen has any concerns about abuse. She seems startled, but even so, fails to sound entirely shocked at the very suggestion. Helen admits to an eating disorder, but fails to tell Ellie that it returned when she was pregnant with Henry. Rob reappears with coffee, and Ellie seems entirely won over by his charm, which he heaps on in spadefuls.

Yes, BYOS, I also agree with that - I think the s/w were more focussed on the dramatic tension of Helen being asked about abuse when the audience knows she should answer "yes" but probably won't. But in real life, I would hope that a m/w would ask in a way that was more encouraging of disclosure (not having the partner present for a start!) - or at least not suggesting a presumption that there is no abuse.

However much professionals like the mw are told domestic abuse occurs at all levels of society, they are just as much taken in by the superficial appearance of happy family life as anyone. Domestic abuse only occurs in run down council estates

Helen was stalling on the baby issue for a long time, hence Robs actions, so deep down she had growing doubts about him. It's too late now and she's tied into keeping on the blinkers.

On the sounding like Jess point, I always thought Jess sounded like the BBC reporter Rosie Millard - who appears to have posted some odd short home videos on YouTube, eg .

For comparison, the actress playing Jess has a website with voiceover clips - I note she does the voiceover for Sudocrem - how very soothing . www.rinamahoney.com/voicereel/

Well I've been reading your posts on last night's ep. and it has taken bleedin' ages!!!!

I thought they were using the same actress as Jess for the mw too (perhaps she's the generic SW type person ).

Agree about Ruth's sadness for her lost pre marriage life. 'Tis understandable IMO.

Oh Peggy's snobbishness about Feebs going to Oxford BOOP for that "The daughter of Roy and Kate going to OXFORD??!! We'll I never!!!!".

Peggy is so wonderfully snobby. Although I don wonder if she will be the one to somehow expose Rob. He may ask he for money and she's so old fashioned and outspoken will say he should be supporting his own family. They must be tearing through that £10k with pub lunches etc. I suspect an argument over money very soon with Rob demanding a wage from the farm.