Robbieeeee! It's meee, it's Jessieeee! I've come home. I'm so cold! Let me in-a-your window. The Archers pay homage to Wuthering Heights?

[PseudoBadger]

A new thread in time for the film this morning.

Quite right, it matters not if dressed salmon is passé. And maybe it isn't. I was just musing with my fingertips.

I don't mind willyum and don't get the hate. I think both brothers have had a pretty shit time of it and the falling out of Emma was also crap for everyone involved.

Ed always seems so self pitying. I just wish they'd give all the grundys a bit of luck and a coming together for the brothers. That would be a nice storyline and would make the kids lives so much easier!!

By the pricking of these sloes
Something wicked that way goes

I still want to know why they picked a truly shite Victorian paedophilic poet to quote. Seems implausible that Archers people without English degrees would've even heard of Dowson, given that he was so rightly totally overshadowed by Yeats, Wilde et al.... why him, and why do Jenny and Carol know who he is?

UUmm... interesting, I really liked the 'mellow' poem, so googled Dowson for more information - it seems his father died of an overdose of sedative/poison - another clue to Carol's true nature?

Not buying the Seance story for one moment - it is just a lazy nod to Hallowe'en - there is no way JD ( or the character i THOUGHT I had been listening to for the last 25 years) would ever entertain such a notion. Can you imagine Brine's reaction? Rubbish.

kiri, maybe he was john's fave poet so both 'ladies' knew from that? That must be what they are alluding to though. Obscure indeed. You are right - I am quite well educated - but not English!! - and I'd never have got that ref without your help.

Was Carol's suggestion that John would haunt her a ref to the manner of his passing? Did her potions work too well?

I dislike Willyam due to his voice. He whines. And he is unnecessarily nasty to his brother and was even before his marriage with Emmur fell apart. It's like he is spoiling for a fight sometimes in his unnecessarily aggressive tone when talking to Ed. Ed maybe moans these days but he has lots to worry about - he did used to be less moany, I think.

x-post with guineapiglet. Thanks for explaining. No need for me to google then .... obscurity rules. I wonder if Mr Basketz got this ref.

Oh how I chuckles when an owl hooted just after Jill spoke at the end of that episode. 'Twas like an echo!

Yes I wondered about that Basketz - about John haunting her. She didn't sound to worried about it though.

Would be great to have Jenny's seance live on air, and for her to contact John and Nigel and various other dedded characters

Maybe when Heather does sotmc JD will be the first to know. Rooth will be so busy looking at parlours inline she won't notice.

i had never heard of dowson so thanks for shedding light on that one kiri and guinea

weird

Am I the only one who thinks the beeb lionises producers/writers who think themselves very clever indeed when they are just smart arses?

i would listen to eleanor bron reading poetry any day. though would be nice to avoid that of paedophilic tendencies

probably BYOS. sometimes they get the basic stuff so wrong it would be nice for more time to be spent on that really

They just lack subtlety.

(Sherlock would be another example but may find myself being pelted with bricks for saying that!)

When I heard Jennydahling mention the seance I did immediately think, HA, MN are going to have fun with that one.

Goodness me, Dowson is buried in our local cemetery. If I ever knew that, I'd forgotten. I don't have an English degree but I had heard of him and I knew he was the days of wine and roses chap.

I don't know enough about the man's life to judge him but those were very different times. I'm not for a moment excusing sexual abuse of children (obviously) but a sentimental fondness for little girls because a man is too immature to be able to sustain an adult relationship with a woman is rather a different matter. I for one don't want to ditch Alice in Wonderland because of Lewis Carroll's fondness for photographing little girls in the nude.

Gypsy - you may have been joking, but I don't think it would be fair to let you choose a time, especially as you appear to be neatly exploiting the difference between some others' choices around that time!

Oh dear, Mr Basketz is 'offended' that a 'much loved character of old' (i.e. John T) should have his reputation besmirched after his death - apparently it's like Paul Gambaccini even although he is not dead. DH reckons there was never any talk of 'pederasty' (DH IS very pedantic!) and JT in the 1950s or whenever he was a much loved character in TA. He takes a dim view of those characters, much loved or otherwise, being given traits after the event. I can see his point with that. He had heard of Ernest Dowson, but didn't know the pederasty links. Oh well. Mimsy, I think you and MrB would find some common ground.

i think it depends on how it materialises in their art tbh. gauguin for instance i cannot stomach

Basketz, good to know I'm not on my own here! Was there any suggestion that John T was of a similar cast of mind to Dowson? I didn't hear that but could have missed it.

Just because somebody is a favourite author/artist/whatever doesn't mean you admire everything about them. I like Wagner's music (in short bursts) in spite of what he was like. I love Evelyn Waugh's novels but I am absolutely sure he would have been very unpleasant to most people IRL, judging by his letters and diaries.

Oh well , never mind.

Yes, Gauguin is a tricky case, Pumpkin. I knew v. little about him when I first came across his work. I like his painting style but the Tahiti pictures make me very uneasy, knowing what (little) I do now.

i agree with you. but there are some instances where the unpleasant aspects permeate the work (like gauguin, in my view)

i hasten to add that i know nothing of dowson, i was just commenting on what others had said and was being slightly facetious

i meant i agree with you that it is possible to admire works by those whose actions you condemn