Buyers asking for a 3k reduction

[cared]

I’m selling my bungalow, and the buyers want a discount because there are no fensa certificates. My uncle, who’s a builder, replaced all the windows and doors 3 years ago. I offered to cover the cost of indemnity insurance to finalise the deal, but they declined and are now asking for a 3k reduction instead. The house has had a new boiler, rads, windows, front door, french doors at the back, new bathroom, flooring, guttering, a new driveway, and a few other minor updates. While it’s a small amount in the grand scheme of things, I feel like they’re already getting a good deal considering all the work I’ve put into the place, and honestly, I think they’re just taking the piss. AIBU to call their bluff?

Yes.
Im fully aware
but there is a course of action to avoid getting bc in separately. ie by ensuring the installer is Fensa qualified
most window installers are

OP, what you have spent is irrelevant to what your property is worth.

Anybody buying will ask for certificates and building regs and warranties and so on for any work, and not to be able to provide them, for recent work in particular, is a concern and will loose other buyers if these walk away. Remember, when then come to move on they will be asked for this too, you are putting them in the same situation.

£3k is not much at all. I'd probably settle on £5k but ask £10k given all you say you have done.
They are the ones taking the risk on re-sell and the quality of work. If they are happy to go ahead, accept the £3k reduction quickly before they change their mind.

I've bought and sold four houses - all of them had work done and no FENSA certificates. It's incredibly common and indemnity for it is the norm. They are just being cheeky and I would call their bluff.

An indemnity policy really doesn’t give the buyers any protection
It will pay for legal fees but not to replace all the windows and doors or even to carry out upgrading if they do not comply.
Why would any buyer accept works without certification when it doesn’t cost much to get bc around
A seller should have all of this in place.

It covers enforcement action by the local authority, legal costs if the council takes action, costs resulting from the council requiring remedial work or removal because of the missing approval, and any reductions in the property’s value directly caused by enforcement action.

It's very valuable and not useless. It's extremely common that they aren't supplied. Sorry, that's a fact no matter how sensible you think it is. 30-50% don't have them upon sale.

Why would any buyer put themselves through all that
Its a sellers responsibility to ensure all works are compliant and certified when necessary
Why would a buyer risk a non compliant window that may not have
for example
a sufficiently sized opening for fire escape
or the correct type of glass
People can suffer major injury if they fall against or are hit by glass that is non compliant
That’s just one of the reasons why bc require windows to be compliant

Replacing them if necessary is an unreasonable expectation from a financial perspective and in order to ensure the safety of occupants.

An indemnity policy does
not cover all replacement or repair work for non-compliant, unapproved, or defective building work.
An indemnity policy (typically for lack of building regulations or planning permission) is designed to protect you from legal enforcement action by the local authority, not the physical cost of fixing the, structural, or dangerous defects.

Regardless – it's incredibly common. Conveyancers don't even bat an eyelid.

What did they say op? Im totally with you on this, if there is an insurance that you can offer then whats the issue? If £3k doesnt cover the cost of replacing them then whats the point?

Because the insurance covers the costs associated with enforcement. It doesn’t cover the necessary charges for the remediation works required at the time.
It would be easier for OP to get retrospective building control approval if she doesn’t want to discount £3k.
The regs are there to ensure fire safety regs & standards are met. It’s not unreasonable to expect this on a house purchase.

Being common does not protect occupants from defective work and non compliant fittings

Grenfell cladding was commonly used and conveyancers didnt bat an eyelid either
They are not the fountain of all knowledge

I didn't say it did. Being common does mean OP is not being unreasonable to expect that it is accepted, however.

It won't save you from a fire which is what the certificate is for, its to say the escape routes are updated and now of a modern standard.

Its the same way we cannot add new lead pain or new asbestos to a property but many old ones still have historic usage.

Unless its a listed building in a conservation area of course the council aren't going to force them to replace standard windows just as old houses do not need to instantly update but new additions have to be modern safety standard. They don't need 'planning permission' so the council will not force anything they need 'regulation checks' to comply that the new works where safe for the occupiers, completely different things.

It is unreasonable to market a fully non certified property
others who do the same are equally unreasonable
Just because others do it does not make it right especially as non compliant works are a risk to life.

I just declared on the TA6 that windows were installed pre Fensa and over the years a number of the windows were replaced. I did keep that documentation - been through two buyers and nobody has kicked off wanting more money. If the FTB drops out at this stage they will have a sunk cost £2-3K so I would'nt be taking any money off.

Goodness me. How many times can I say it? I didn't say those things aren't the case. I said how common it is – it just is, whether you like it or not. Therefore the OP's expectation isn't unreasonable.

Hey, sorry for getting back to you late, it’s been a hectic few days. I called the EA yesterday morning and told them I wouldn’t be lowering the price any further, but I’m still willing to cover the indemnity insurance if they’re happy with that. I mentioned that I think it’s a good deal given the property’s size, location, and all the upgrades I’ve done (I really believe that, and I disagree with the comment from the poster saying it doesn’t affect the property’s value - of course it does! Otherwise, houses without improvements would be priced the same as mine, but they aren’t). Where else can you find a 3 bed bungalow in a nice, quiet area, with a spacious driveway, big gardens, and all these upgrades for 185k? 🤷🏼‍♀️ The driveway itself set me back almost 9 grand, not to mention everything else I've had done. The fact people think I’ve been cheap is laughable. I’ve spent a fortune on the place and made it really nice for the next person.

Anyway, about 20 minutes later, the EA called me back and said they weren’t satisfied with the indemnity and asked what the next steps were. I told them there weren’t any, just put it back on the market. There’s a house a few doors down for sale that they can buy if they really want to live in this area. The EA said, 'Oh, but they want a bungalow, not a house.' I replied, 'Well, those are my terms and conditions, it’s up to them now. I left it in their hands. The EA said they’d talk to them and get back to me. I didn’t hear anything for the rest of the day. I was planning to call this morning, but they phoned me before I had a chance and said the buyers had changed their minds and were ready to go ahead with the indemnity. So it seems like we’re back on track.

I know it’s not a sure thing as they might find another place and pull out at the last minute, so I told the EA that if there’s any more messing around, it’s going straight back on the market. I had two other offers before, so I’m pretty confident it will sell again. Or I can rent it out if needs be. It’s a great area with lots of families, a primary school, shop, community centre and a park. It’s really popular. I have options, and like I said before, I’m not in a rush to sell as I’m moving in with my partner.

I’m glad I stood my ground and didn’t back down. It just shows it wasn’t that important to them if they’re willing to move forward without the certificates. I think they were chancing their luck and just wanted to save some money tbh. Thank you for all the advice and support (good and bad) 😊

Bravo, sometimes you have to just hold firm - they want the property, they are just chancing their arm - now they know you won't budge and that's that!

Well done OP 👏🏻 Hopefully no more messing about & things can progress for you now 🙏🏻
Buying the indemnity insurance didn’t cause any delays for our move.

Great. I believe bungalows are very much in demand, so you were absolutely right to hold firm.

Well done! They were trying to take the piss, the windows have clearly been fine for 3 years, did your buyers think they’d fall down the moment they moved in? It’s not like a fensa approved installer could foresee the type of issues that your buyers appear to think might arise years after the windows are installed.

I'm sorry but you are mistaken if you think a Fensa certificate is a guarantee against faulty work.

When windows are replaced they must meet current building regulations. Without that certificate the council's building control dept could, theoretically, require the owner to prove that is the case. That could cost money in terms of having to expose the frames and how they fitted. A Fensa certificate tells the council that they were compliant from the outset.

that is why "indemnity" insurance is an option in the absence of a certificate as it would provide a pot of money to pay for whatever inspection work the council requires..

The reality on the other hand is the council is infinitesimally likely to ever inspect

Most people ask for a reduction when their lender downvalues the house.

it means the buyers aren’t liable for any issues if building regs came knocking. It seemed crazy to me at the time but we just paid £90 for one and all was well!

What's 3k in the grand scheme of things? Just accept

Good on you for standing your ground. I assume OP they have not been back?