Buying a house with an occasional room and no BR

[Porterface84]

Hi. I’ve put an offer on a 3 bed house with an occasional room. The current seller didn’t convert the loft the previous owner did and they haven’t got any building regulations. I can see there’s no smoke alarms in the whole house and the loft doesn’t have a fire door nor the first floor doors. The room is a pretty big space and they are using it as a bedroom (but not marketed as 4 beds)
It has x2 velux on one side and x2 dormers the other side and central heating. Do I need to push this issue further? I really like the house so it’s a tough decision. I have paid for a level 2 survey but I’ve not done this before so not sure what the survey will say.

Not to frighten you , but to make sure you make an informed decision.

https://dbcp.co.uk/dbcp-warns-home-owners-that-loft-conversions-could-invalidate-home-insurance/

If it’s just used as storage and no bed or bedroom furniture up there would this still be an insurance issue if the worse happened?

There is absolutely no way I would have my child (or indeed anyone) sleeping in a third floor room without properly safe fire retardant doors and a safe fire escape route to the outside.

Or contact Building Regs at the Council. Ours was exceptionally helpful when I had a downstairs toilet installed in my cupboard under the stairs recently.

No I wouldn’t. There’s 3 normal bedrooms on the first floor. So the loft would be storage

Yes for BR you are supposed to have fire doors - actually for new houses/ renovations all doors are supposed to be fire doors (except bathroom) We had to paint on this awful varnish on our lovely Victorian internal doors as we'd done building work to the whole house. We also had to put a fire door in the attic room which we intend to replace with a normal door now it's been inspected for BR.
As PP said, you are conflating two things. Youll get a mortgage based on it being a 3 bed house. The same when you sell it. There's no reason why your dd cant sleep in it now. Lots of houses have an extra room but they cant market them as bedrooms. You could always replace the door if you're worried about fire but im not sure how useful that would actually be if there were a fire. They're not hugely expensive though.

Probably better to plan an escape route and have one of those pull out rope ladders up there in case of emergency. But I suppose that depends on the age of your dd.

My house is exactly like this plus it has an 80s single storey ground floor extension. The sellers got indemnity insurance which satisfied the mortgage company.
The house next door has just had their loft converted to a 3 bed with full PP. their loft room is smaller than ours and the second bedroom is basically now a nursery room as it had to have a corridor width taken off it. On the ground floor they have had a strange lobby area put at the bottom of the stairs which cuts off some of the living room. They have had to put fire doors on the bedrooms too.
Making your house up to current building regs could be very expensive!
We got ours reduced as it was advertised as a 3 bed (including the loft) but as I pointed out to the EA when we viewed it, it really wasn’t 3 bed as the loft wasn’t compliant at all. It suits our needs though as we use it as a music / sewing / hobby room.

At the moment it’s their problem
Dont make it your problem
They have either done the work themselves or bought it last year without seeing the necessary consents
If you go ahead you can’t use the loft as living space and you would have an issue re selling
Your solicitor will have to report this issue to your mortgage company who might not lend
Indemnity policies are not worth the paper they are written on
I would get costs for obtaining retrospective consents and try and get sellers to pay
If they won’t then either you have to pay or you walk away

To add, we have full insurance as a 2 bed, and the insurers know about the loft room.
The vast majority of houses that are older than 2 years will not be BR compliant now as the regs change so often.

Make sure the sellers provide the FENSA certificate for the new windows too

So it's a 3 bed with handy loft storage. Is it pricey fairly for that? The dormer was done over 10 years ago so you can't be instructed to remove it, as far as I know. Just check that with your solicitor.

Otherwise, if it's a good price, I wouldn't be put off.

No
You don’t need to take it down
You make a retrospective application

However
If planning is refused and an appeal by you is also refused then yes you have to take it down

Id ask the owners
-if they have made a retrospective application
-if not why not
and
-whether they will do one now

So If I was desperate for this house -I’d check the volume
-Have a look locally on the planning portal and see if others have done roof conversions
-Ask the planners what the likelihood of getting planning is
-ask the current owners for literature / images when they bought
-If the answer to all these is no
Id walk away

It’s a pretty reasonable price and they’ve not marketed it as a 4 bed. Ultimately the bank might not sign off on it so that would be decision made.

Thank you, I didn’t even know I could check planning applications before the comments suggested it. Good idea.

They will need proof of when the work was completed
Old Google earth images could help with that
also images of the past sale of even photos of the property the current owners have taken
If they are dated

OP knows it was done 2012-15.

The main criteria for a loft room to be used as a proper bedroom are a fixed staircase, fully opening windows for exit in an emergency situation and a self closing fire door at the top or bottom of the staircase. It may just be they didn’t get planning and therefore don’t have building regs sign off.

I’d be worried more about the structural issues. Were the chimney breasts removed (it looks like it), what are the joists like, roof support etc. all things that would need some structural investigation which the owners are unlikely to allow.

It has a fixed staircase and two big widows on the dormers that open far. There’s no fire escape you’d have to sit on the roof. No idea about joists. The floor would have to be ripped up for that and a hole in the ceiling for insulation checks etc. It has two big radiators. Normal door at the bottom.

I don’t mind using it as storage just not sure what buildings insurance would say.

Honestly who goes to all that trouble without any planning and regs. The mind boggles.

I don’t think the chimney was moved as they have a working log burner in the lounge. I could be wrong (probably wrong with how this is going)

Those are roof lights at the front
There’s no proof of the dormer there

Building regs to do with ensuring anyone sleeping there would havd the best chance of being able to escape/survive

OP has been told that but Im not sure there’s any proof or at least haven’t seen any

You need to speak to your solicitor. It can seem harmless enough but buildings insurance for a non compliant house is a risk. The building regs include fire safety as you say. It’s expensive to get retrospective planning/building regs as you’d have to meet current regulations… my partner had this issue. Wasn’t a requirement to have vents on windows when he did a renovation without approval but in order to sell, he needed to make it compliant with the present day standards - not when he did the work. For lofts that can be expensive as insulation requirements have also changed. I’d knock the price down to cover this.. indemnity insurance policies only usually cover you for the council demanding you remove the development.