Buying a house with an occasional room and no BR

[Porterface84]

Hi. I’ve put an offer on a 3 bed house with an occasional room. The current seller didn’t convert the loft the previous owner did and they haven’t got any building regulations. I can see there’s no smoke alarms in the whole house and the loft doesn’t have a fire door nor the first floor doors. The room is a pretty big space and they are using it as a bedroom (but not marketed as 4 beds)
It has x2 velux on one side and x2 dormers the other side and central heating. Do I need to push this issue further? I really like the house so it’s a tough decision. I have paid for a level 2 survey but I’ve not done this before so not sure what the survey will say.

You’ll need an indemnity insurance policy to cover the lack of building regs and look at improving the fire doors etc for safety.
its usually expected that the sellers pay for the indemnity but they might refuse.

How can I find out what would need to be done for it to meet the standards? It has a fixed staircase too so could it just be the fire safety element? It looks like this…

Two separate issues:

Is it marketed and priced as three bed and would a surveyor value it sufficiently for any mortgage loan you need

Would the lack of it being a “habitable room” limit your planned use of the property and mean you need to upgrade it and get br yourself. If you were to apply now current regs would apply and the previous work may not meet them as they are updated over time.

If it was converted some time ago enforcement action by the local planning authority is very unlikely but it is possible an indemnity policy already exists from the previous sale and can be passed on.

The other thing to consider is if the dormers needed and had planning permission.

It’s only marketed as a 3 bed plus occasional room so potentially the mortgage aspect would be ok. Would there be issues insuring the house with this room?

My daughter is desperate to sleep in the room which she couldn’t do unless I can find out what would need to be done to make this habitable.

I will ask the estate agents on Monday about any indemnity insurance, they didn’t mention it so it seems unlikely.

The seller said they weren’t aware of planning permission being sought. Do dormers need this?

Indemnity insurance only funds the insurers. Walk away form this it won’t help you

Walk away from buying the house or do you mean don’t bother with the indemnity?

What the fuck is an occasional room? It’s either a non habitable room or a habitable one. Labelling it occasional is meaningless. An indemnity policy is also completely pointless.

If you want to use this space for anything other than storage AND if it has a permanent stair regardless, it needs building regulations approval. Do not even consider using it for sleeping accommodation. The vendors need to apply to get it regularised before you proceed.

People are incredibly ill informed about this, so unless they are qualified to give you advice, please ignore them.

I don’t understand what you are saying about no fire doors. Most houses don’t have fire door, I think that’s just for multiple occupancy.

No I think part of the BR for a converted loft is fire safety amongst other things and fire doors are required.

Wrong.

The current regs are that a 2 storey house with a converted loft space needs a protected route via fire doors and fire resistant construction to a final escape.

The Building Regulations came into effect in 1985.

Well I’m assuming the current sellers have no choice but to sell it as an occasional room as they literally have no idea what the last occupants did to the loft.

I will ask them to get someone in to see what is needed. I’m hoping they agree as I’m going through a divorce and the house is perfect for me and my two children otherwise but I’m new to all this regs stuff to do with lofts.

They can’t label it an occasional room unless it has been like this prior to 1985. The building regulations do not differentiate between a room used periodically or for hobbies or study or sleeping. They are all habitable. I would walk away from this unless the vendors are prepared to regularise it.

I don’t think it’s been done more than 5-10 years ago.

If the seller refuses to sort the regulations would it still be a bad idea to purchase the house even if we just used it as a normal storage area?

You could phone your local council planning dept.

After you own it you can choose to use it as accommodation, but in the knowledge it may not meet the current safety standards. Any planning applications should be available to view online. Whether the dormers or even the velux needed them will depend on the area and requirements at the time. The conversion may have been allowed as Permitted Development but Buildings Regulations would still apply,

Use it as storage. But did they get planning for the dormers? Sometimes that might come under PD, but I’d want a certificate of lawful development. Did they get building regs for the roof lights? That’s a structural
opening - a material alteration. It needs building regs. Do they have a permanent stair? That also needs regs.

If the answer to the above is yes, crack on. But remember the loft will be suitable for light storage only. Unconverted loft spaces are not structurally suitable for anything more than this.

If you do this and are told there were none you invalidate any indemnity policy.

@Porterface84 when did the current vendors purchase the house? You say you don’t think the conversion was done more than 10 years back, so I’m suspicious at the lack of clarity. Surely their solicitor would have questioned this.

To upgrade

A third floor room needs a safe escape to the outside
So doors on the escape route need to be 1/2hr fire rated.
The stairs up need to confirm to the regs re width, riser and tread dimensions, handrails etc
Roof insulation, dpm and windows all need to conform also.
Does the vendor have fensa certs for the windows. ( if installed after 2004) If not you can get these from a building control officer but you’ll need to let them have a look. ( We bought without fensa certs for one window and just had to add clear film ). If the windows have a kite mark it will be easier to get approval

To get a detailed outline on site
You can get a building control officer to give you advice on what you will need to do
Just Google building control in the area. The local council may have them but not all do these days

As it stands the room is not a habitable room.

Thanks everyone. The current owners bought it in 2024 already converted. They can’t give me any details regarding planning permission and they don’t have the building regs.

The previous owners seem to have lived there 2009-2024 right move tells me.

Ive got no other details than this. So if this is something the current sellers solicitors would have found out, are the sellers hiding something?
I imagine if this is the case my solicitors would find out the same?

If it was done as part of permitted development there won’t be any records with planning

When The current sellers bought this would have come up
Their solicitor and mortgage company would want an indemnity

Are they lying
Sounds like they’ve done the extension without any permissions

I think the issue for it to be a "proper " bedroom is as others have said - fire regs - so fire doors where mandated , also stairs need to fit BR if going to normally occupied rooms ( I think ) .

The dormer windows I am not sure would preclude it being a proper bedroom - I would have thought that is a planning permission thing not building regs ( unless without and no pp the ceiling is too low - not sure how that works. ) Has anyone else in the road in the same sort of house got dormer windows and a proper bedroom. Some houses , the loft space is just too low to ever count as a habitable room without raising the roof ( I think ) .

Anyway , either you buy it and wing it which the current vendors seem to be doing or get someone round to give you proper advice about whether it's a safe room and just needs some installable adjustments.

Otherwise ( but I'm quite cautious ) I wouldn't use it as a bedroom , even occasionally - it's basically a fancy loft , not a loft conversion.

(I can see I have missed a lot of posts there owing to slow typing )