What point do you issue an ultimatum on a house purchase?

[Purplecarrots123]

Apologies in advance as my patience is wearing thin and this is a long saga….we offered on a house in July. We have still not exchanged and the trail of events is below, at what point do we make an ultimatum…..

Offered 5k off of the asking price in July. Was accepted. In early August they came back asking for more claiming another offer at asking price had come in despite it being off the market. We offered a little over the asking price to secure but did tell them no more so if the other party came back with more then we were out as there was a limit to what we were prepared to pay above asking price. They accepted our offer, we do wander if there was another offer….

We were told they wanted to move in October half term 2024, suited us, we powered on with conveyancing as between august and October with a small chain it would be squeaky but if everyone cracked on doable. We were also told initially they were very motivated to move. The truth couldn’t be further from that given we are still trundling….

Their solicitor failed to reply to ours for weeks. We then found out they had offered on a property with a chain with probate at the top. No issues but it stretched the timelines which we said we understood and kept with it based on the probate application had already been b submitted and was underway.

We then find out the top of the chain has collapsed and our vendors agree to break the chain. Confirmed in writing to our solicitor by theirs and also in writing to us by the agent.

4-5 weeks later after a lack of progress on their part we are then told we are now back in a chain as they have found somewhere. Discovered by what was written on legal forms, so our solicitor took it up with theirs as we had not been updated by anyone. we said understood them wanting to not do rented but again we wanted to keep moving and asked for reassurance the chain was closed to allow all to proceed.

We then had them refuse to make any effort to try complete before Christmas and were told by their estate agent in October to not push and tell our solicitor to go slow and not put any pressure on theirs as they didn’t want to complete before Christmas as it was too “distressing” for them. Realistically I think we could have done and our solicitor said a pre Christmas completion was perfectly doable.

We have since been dealing with them dragging their heels, withholding forms, forms filled in incorrectly, refusing a viewing (I wanted to see it again when the fixtures form came through as they asked for money for stuff and I couldn’t remember July tbh!) delaying again by coming back post fixtures and fittings agreement asking for more money for stuff like a bog standard ding dong doorbell and if we don’t pay for it or buy them a new one to take with them they’ll take it with them, give me strength (it’s not a ring doorbell before anyone asks 🤣).

Its now January, almost 7 months since our first offer was accepted - our solicitor has done everything she needs to on the sale of our flat and purchase of this house. We have not exchanged and no date set for exchange or completion and out solicitor is continuously pushing the rest of the chain for dates. At what point might we push to say exchange or we back out? I’m so utterly tired of being messed around, I feel like we have been patient and accommodating but I worry timings may just drag on and I can see a world where we lose our buyer too.

They agreed to it in the end and we confirmed the rest of the chain would all exchange this week....and then our buyers situation has now potentially derailed it all, the exchange debate was what surfaced the lack of our buyers progress. Embarrassing tbh and gives us no leverage whatsoever.

Apparently our buyer had no idea their solicitor hadn't done stuff and had been told it was done. I think its all been handled naively and our buyers didn't realise you need to keep on top of this stuff. Between us and our solicitor, what can be responded to has been (all done by midday after getting the enquiries through at 9.30am this morning), more documents have been ordered and we are now chasing the management company to express those given the situation. We are both pretty stressed about it all tbh.

To the pp who asked about the Australian system, when you fill in your written offer form, there is room to add caveats eg depending upon surveyors report saying … Or “subject to possible revision after a roof inspection” or whatever. You have to word it properly or the sellers can just say “you wanted a surveyors report and you got it. Nothing changes from my POV so your offer stands”.

But, basically, the offer and acceptance are legally binding.

So empathy OP.

Very similar scenario to our move last year. Our vendor faffed and faffed and our buyer got more and more furious. Then we changed vendors, got them to agree to a six week completion, shouter, screamed and generally nagged it over the line only to discover our bully of a buyer hadn't bothered moving his cash out of a foreign country so everything got delayed due to anti money laundering checks. We looked like idiots and ended up have to break the chain to get it all through in the end.

HORRIFIC

One or both of them don't actually want to sell
Simple
Years ago, we offered on 2 properties, had asking price offers accepted and then the vendor pretty much immediately pulled the house off the market
Both vendors are still living in the houses
The EAs at the time explained it by saying "some people just treat this as a little hobby"!!
We bought the house we are currently in (15 years now...) and it's SO much better than the 2 we "lost" and because we went into rented accommodation we offered and were in within 6 weeks as we were buying a part-ex property from a house building company 😀

Oh no I have been silently checking in on this thread as it reminded me of the last time we moved in 2023. I had a long chain with total nightmare buyers. Very rich cash buyers who paid for a really cheap solicitor who was terrible. I actually decided to walk for the wake of my mental health. They made a sneaky attempt to view next door when already committed to us and an unsubtle and unsuccessful attempt at gazundering which was resolved within two hours when they were told I was remarketing. This actually caused them to sort themselves out. Just as we finally saw the finish line our vendor suddenly decided to get a survey and when that delay occurred their vendor nearly pulled out. I still remember how annoying and smug they were acting like I'd caused a drama for no reason. I'm now sat in the house we were trying to buy. It was worth it but was also worth walking away from for the sake of my sanity at the time. It does at least sound like you're nearly there

@BigSkies2022 in answer to your question about the Wuuensjsnd system, you get the survey done in the first 10 days (which you can decide, mutually to waive or extend). You can pull out without penalty during that time, such as a bad survey.

It's also not uncommon for the seeker to commission an independent survey themselves the results of which they can make available to the buyer for a fee, or free.

The reason it doesn't happen in the UK is that people don't understand it (cf Proportional Representation); and interested parties sponsor political parties to maintain the status quo, estate agents, surveyors,
builders etc.

@Fordian - thanks for the reply. There was an attempt, back in the early 00's, to reform the housing market through sellers' packs, which would include a survey; but buyers tend not to trust surveys and searches which they had not commissioned themselves, and so the thing fell by the wayside, because never adopted.

The offer/accept then string it out for stressful months until exchange system that we have here is built on the 'buyer beware' principle- so a seller can tell any number of lies about their property and area, and it is completely down to the the buyer to hire the right professionals whose research is watertight and who can flush out any problems (but if they don't, it's hellishly hard to prove negligence). In other words, distrust is just baked in.

I imagine under the system you describe, buyers have to be very organised with a surveyor, to do the survey/s, and a lawyer, to word the offer tightly. But I would certainly live with that if it avoided months of anxiety and hellish, last-minute brinkmanship!

Just realised I left you all hanging.....we exchanged on Friday 17th after some concerted efforts to get us there.

It gets stranger though.....had a call from our vendors estate agent today asking what time we are going to complete on our sale this Friday (bizarre - I don't know we will engage with our solicitor on the day and depends on bank transfers?!) and then to tell me the vendors children were so so upset about leaving their home and as a result the vendors were in pieces.....it ain't over until its over and we have those keys in our hand.....bizarre, odd thing to say.....my OH has just googled about what happens if someone pulls out after exchange!!!

I am now so done with this process and I write this surrounded by my entire home packed into boxes with the exception of 2 plates and 2 sets of cutlery!

@Purplecarrots123 god I hope it is too late for them to pull out now!! we are in scotland so we dont have those awful chains like england! I hope they have started packing!!

Technically, I think they can if they really want to. I believe the Seller has to pay any costs the Buyer has incurred and interest on the deposit. I think they then lose the deposit on their onward purchase and we would get our 10% deposit returned which we have paid. This wasn't something we had planned to be finding out about tbh.....I just thought it was very odd and was taken aback that they told me this and asked what time we would be completing on our sale.

Bloody hell!!

My words were somewhat more inflammatory but I'm with you, you couldn't write this and why do I care? Why? They seem to be one on there own. We have made our solicitor aware this afternoon.

One of my friends sold her place last year and the buyers put it back on the market less than 3 weeks later.. the buyers had really faffed around and delayed the sale for loads of nefarious reasons, but she was just pleased they didn't pull out! What a costly mistake 😣

They sound absolutely bonkers.
I really feel for you @Purplecarrots123 and I really hope it all works out and you update us with happy news.

What kind of estate agent rings and asks that? Did they get a random in off the street. They should know the process! I’d ring back and ask to speak to the branch manager
and ask what they are playing at.

the rate we are going I could imagine our vendors doing something similar with their purchase...I will never know of course but I wouldn't put it past them. I don't think they are truly happy with wanting to move but not my issue and they have had enough time to make that decision.

I know - on completion day you all follow the chain and have to wait your turn to a level, you cannot engineer nor predict a time?!? This is a very, very long shot and pie in the sky theory but I was wandering if the EA has doubts about our vendors and just wants it done as speedily as possible as they are wobbling, hence the disclosure to me about them being in pieces.

Its all so bizarre and I can't make sense of it. OH is equally baffled and rendered speechless and he is the most logical, level headed, calm, patient person known to the human race. He plans to unleash on the agent tomorrow - he rarely does this, that shows how confused we are. And worried tbh, we are a bit worried, trying not to worry but we are realising how serious this could get, quite quickly should the worst happen.

What a bloody nightmare your having!. I wonder if the EA is trying to give you a heads up that they really haven't prepared anything for moving - ie nothing packed - and so you'll be waiting ages once you've completed for them to actually leave ?

Good point.
I don’t want to be a downer or stress you out @Purplecarrots123 but I would prepare for this happening. I read on here about a buyer who tuned up to her new house on completion day, the sellers had only just started packing.
It wouldn’t hurt to prepare for the worst.

I truly am - I'm actually prepared for a call that they have changed their mind entirely after today. The alarm bells have been ringing all afternoon that something is off and this does not happen for no reason. Thank goodness I took out the late key waiver on our removals.

In our preparedness, we have also packed overnight bags in the event we cannot stay there the night of completion for whatever reason. We have packed all our stuff in boxes, have overnight bags intact and are literally living off skeleton stuff this week. I've also booked someone to help do things like a deep clean of the oven and bathrooms in our place on Thursday so I can clean the rest speedily once it is cleared Friday and its left to a really good standard for our buyer. I feel like we well prepared and a lot of thought has gone into it on our part!

this happened to us.

No contact whatsoever. We had to turn up at 6.30pm to be like whats going on.

Knocked on the door and they are all sitting down eating dinner. House completely unpacked.

Took them 4 days to move. It was a complete nightmare but in hindsight we made a hell of a lot of unexpected money out of it in penalties and they had to cover all costs.

Our solicitor had never seen it happen but did a great job. He rang them 3 times a day to update them on their bill.

Ran into tens of thousand.

It’s utterly bizarre. They should be keeping their buyers in check! You don’t have control of the timings.

If they don’t get out in time you can sue them because your movers will start charging plus they’d be in your house once the money has gone through. Make sure when your DH rings tomorrow he stipulates this! Do not stay anywhere else! I’d be chucking their stuff onto the front lawn if I had to 🤣

What absolute morons 🤣

And to think these wombles live amongst us. I can’t imagine rocking up to find them eating dinner without a care after completion!! Good on your solicitor, you had a gem there!