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New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back

259 replies

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 00:28

I have lived in my house for getting on 40 years. Our wonderful (and sadly now ex) next-door neighbours bought the house on the attached side of our semi-detached house in 2012.

There was a lot of work for them to do, including sorting out the front garden which was in a mess. We had a drive on ours, albeit not in the best of condition, so when the neighbours told us they were getting a driveway installed too (this was about 2014) we asked if we could go in with them and have ours re-done at the same time, using the same contractors.

Our neighbours also had plans to install a footpath from the proposed drive, across the section of grass that would remain, to the their front door & side access. We liked these plans, and asked for the same. Our neighbours organised everything, and we paid for all of the work that took place on our side.

The work was done, and we ended up with one continuous driveway across the two properties, and matching footpaths from the drive to our respective front doors. The dropped kerb runs all the way from my side to theirs (It's the size of 2x double dropped kerb).

Soon after, the neighbours installed a 4ft fence all around the three sides of their grassed area of the front garden, with a gate leading to their new footpath. We did not desire a fence, so did not duplicate this on our side.

However, in the middle of our two properties, up against the house and on the boundary, there is a soakaway drain with a waste pipe from the guttering that runs across the front of the roofs of both our houses. Although the drain is in the middle and on the boundary, there is more of it on our neigbours side than ours.

Because of this, when the neighbours had their fence installed, they went about 20 inches from the boundary on their side, so that all of the drain was on my side of their fence, as doing it the other way so that the drain was in their side meant having their fence over my side of the boundary. In other words, we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden.

This was their choice, and for all the years they lived there, life was very good. Sadly, they moved about three months ago.

Today I bumped into the man who has bought the house (it's a family but we've seen very little of them). He was pleasant enough, but mentioned that he's aware that we have part of their garden and that in the new year he plans to see about taking it back. I told him we have absolutely no issue with this what so ever, and that we'd never asked for the fence to be put where it was, so if he wanted to move it, that was up to him.

But then he said it was our responsibility to get this done, at the least pay for it! He said he'd checked the deeds and that the boundary is ours to maintain (this is correct, as we went through all of this 10+ years ago when getting the driveway done) and therefore I would need to meet the cost of the fence being moved to what he calls the "correct" position.

I told him that even though we are responsible on the deeds for the boundary, there is nothing that says we have to have a fence, and nothing that says if one is fitted that I have to maintain it. I pointed out that in an estate of over 100 houses, there are only two with fences round the front gardens, and that having his fence installed was a choice that the previous owners made, not me.

It is further complicated by the fact that the drive is one continuous section, with no distinction between their and ours - ultimately, two cars can park side -by-side on each side (so effectively four cars in a row across two properties) and as our neighours had two cars (same as we do) we only ever parked on our respective sides, leaving plenty of room between our car and theirs. It's never been a problem.

My question is this - what (if anything) do I need to do now? And what action can my new neigbour take over a fence which has nothing to do with me at all?

Diagram attached - the red section is the 3-sided fence which I speak of, and the yellow rectangle between the two houses is the drain that sits mostly over their side of the boundary. The thick purple line is the boundary, and the thick orange line is the end of the drive where it meets the public footpath.

TIA.

New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back
OP posts:
Zonder · 20/12/2024 22:39

Excellent updated diagram.

Now did you say the old neighbours put the fence up because of their dogs? Why would they do that? Is there no back garden? I do note that there's no back garden on the diagram.

BORN2BMILD · 20/12/2024 22:49

Zonder · 20/12/2024 22:39

Excellent updated diagram.

Now did you say the old neighbours put the fence up because of their dogs? Why would they do that? Is there no back garden? I do note that there's no back garden on the diagram.

Please don't make me do a diagram of the back garden - it has three raised sections and I've no idea how to convey that image in 2D. 😂

Yes, previous neighbours had a dog which they used to allow out of the front. There is a back garden, but they seemed more keen to allow it in the front, I think it was to keep the back yard free of poopie-doops so that the children could play out there without worry of stepping in / landing on something untoward. As it was (and totally off topic) the whole family were clean fanatics, so as soon as the dog had been out & done it's business, one of the adults would be picking up right after it.

The back of our houses is also quite dark, even in the summer, whereas the front is much less so, and located at the far end of a secluded estate as we are, it really is quite pleasant to sit out the front on a summers evening. Of course, sitting out the front of one's house conjures up all sorts of stereotypes that might get me banned from mumsnet, so I won't mention discontinued mattresses and doorsteps as a seating arrangement, because that's not how it is.

OP posts:
Zonder · 20/12/2024 23:13

Thanks for the explanation. I do have every faith in your ability to draw raised sections in your back garden in a new diagram though 😆

LivelyMintViper · 20/12/2024 23:26

SoupDragon · 20/12/2024 14:34

well, for a start it hasn't been 20 years...

Sorry misread as 2000. Dodgy info anyway
Just a thought ...

.
....

andthat · 21/12/2024 02:24

BORN2BMILD · 20/12/2024 22:35

@Choccyp1g I was thinking about this today. I looked at the driveway, and lo-behold, despite saying the drive was one "continuous" installation across the front of both houses, I see now it isn't.

The drive (and footpaths) are constructed of weed-free printed concrete, which gives a stunning, immaculate finish when viewed from the street, and provides an absolutely heart-stopping experience when walked on when wet, for those who are into such excitement (sadly I'm not, as the thought of slipping & breaking a hip is not on my bucket list). Anyway, said concrete requires an expansion gap at regular intervals, which is then filled with something that is colour-matched to the concrete, which is why I've never noticed before.

To this end, the is an expansion gap in the drive, right on the boundary line, so in effect there's two sections of printed concrete, one in front of each house, defining each side of the drive.

My diagrams have attracted much praise, and my love for Microsoft Paint remains as strong as ever, so I've updated my diagram (below) to explain more fully the point about the expansion gap, as well as factoring a few other details which have cropped up in the course of this thread.

Edited

@BORN2BMILD although it’s almost 2.30 am, I have to commend you on your expanded diagram. That is all.

PrincessOfPreschool · 21/12/2024 02:51

BORN2BMILD · 20/12/2024 20:43

And so, it came to pass, that my front doorbell did ring this fine evening. Standing there on the doorstep was the lady from next-door, a seasonal houseplant in one hand and a Christmas card in the other.

I invited her in and we went through to the kitchen. She complimented me most spectacularly on the appearance of the pile of neatly ironed tea towels (she didn't really, but there's no way I'm letting @Thunderpunt get away with making that comment 😂). I thanked her for the gift and the card, and there was little mention of her husband and absolutely no mention of anything to do with fences.

I'm 50/50 in thinking there's more to come. I got the impression he has form for this sort of thing, reading between the lines of something else she said in passing. She seems to be on the ball though, so fingers crossed.

How lovely of her! I can almost hear the argument they had about him 'already upsetting the new neighbours', 'being ridiculous about a fence on our own land' and 'it's going to be all on me (again!) to fix the problems you create.'

Hoping the arguments will be out of your earshot, OP.

Wilfrida1 · 21/12/2024 05:47

The joy of these diagrams completely surpasses anything else Christmas might have to offer.

raises glass

Thunderpunt · 21/12/2024 08:14

Apologies OP at my incredulity over the ironed tea towels... I had no intention to offend. And congratulations on the latest update, hopefully that will put an end to it. Like a PP I suspect the poor wife is regularly having to smooth things over on behalf of her arse of a husband.

One small thing.... I love the updated diagram, and I know the rotary washing line is for now, imagined. But seriously - a washing line in the front garden, for all and sundry to see your smalls drying as they go past - what horrors that gives me! (conveniently ignoring that you're at the end of a cul-de-sac) WinkGrin

Floralnomad · 21/12/2024 10:31

Nothing to add except to say I love your diagrams and indeed your most articulate posting style @BORN2BMILD

CellophaneFlower · 21/12/2024 10:36

Floralnomad · 21/12/2024 10:31

Nothing to add except to say I love your diagrams and indeed your most articulate posting style @BORN2BMILD

Agreed. I am bored of the repetitive posts stating the obvious but am staying in the hope of a back garden diagram and perhaps one of OPs house interior 😂

mumatlast14 · 21/12/2024 11:37

Haven't read the whole thread but my guess is he's made (wrong but not unreasonable) assumptions based on having no knowledge of the history of events. He's bought a house, that side is neighbours responsibility and the fence is not on the boundary but on his land. Now he is aware that it was errected by the person he bought from and he can do what he likes with it (within boundary) hopefully he will adjust his views accordingly. Good luck hope all goes smoothly.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 21/12/2024 11:57

Brilliant OP, fabulous diagram. Neighbours wife is clearly pissed off with him and hopefully told him he was being a twat.

BORN2BMILD · 21/12/2024 12:44

Thunderpunt · 21/12/2024 08:14

Apologies OP at my incredulity over the ironed tea towels... I had no intention to offend. And congratulations on the latest update, hopefully that will put an end to it. Like a PP I suspect the poor wife is regularly having to smooth things over on behalf of her arse of a husband.

One small thing.... I love the updated diagram, and I know the rotary washing line is for now, imagined. But seriously - a washing line in the front garden, for all and sundry to see your smalls drying as they go past - what horrors that gives me! (conveniently ignoring that you're at the end of a cul-de-sac) WinkGrin

I am far, far from offended. More a gasp of "I'll get you for that!", with a wide grin and a clutch of the pearls I don't own.

I can't argue that a washing line full of smalls out the front wouldn't be the most visually appealing structure - I don't know why I mentioned it as an example, though inexplicably it was the first thing that popped into my head.

OP posts:
OnlyLittleOldMe · 22/12/2024 09:44

His only recourse if he wants the fence is to build it on the boundary but stop at the drainsoak. Which should solve the problem, unless he too wants to use the front garden to allow a dig to roam about in it.

OnlyLittleOldMe · 22/12/2024 09:44

Dog

Balancedcitizen101 · 22/12/2024 09:45

I'm no expert but would say legally you do not have to pay for the fence move. 'Caveat emptor' as mentioned is relevant here. Assuming you are in England.

SoupDragon · 22/12/2024 09:49

Balancedcitizen101 · 22/12/2024 09:45

I'm no expert but would say legally you do not have to pay for the fence move. 'Caveat emptor' as mentioned is relevant here. Assuming you are in England.

You don't need to be a legal expert to know that you wouldn't have to pay for someone else to move their own fence on their own land.

Marshbird · 22/12/2024 09:50

SensitivePetal · 18/12/2024 00:47

Is he actually trying to redraw the boundaries (via useage/ your consent) to remove the shared facility (soak away?)

This might not be a bad thing as shared services and driveways can be a major turnoff for buyers but if so he is going about it in a very cackhanded way.

It might also involve legal costs on both sides though: I wouldn’t be inclined to pay those as the incumbent who’s lived there for many years, on the urging of Johnny Big Bollocks 😂

Shared surface water culverts/pipes have a massive advantage over non shared- since law changed some years ago they HAVE to be owned by utility companies. So if they block it is utility companies responsisiblty. If they’re not shared it is always your house, your responsibility. There aren’t issues then anymore with shared utilities

just saying.

she’s not mentioned a soak away (did I miss that?) I assume it is a standard Dow pipe going into a surface water drain and into a utility company’s discharge drainage

just saying….a bit distracting for thread

sunbum · 22/12/2024 09:53

I take it youre going to stop mowing their bit of grass?

Id mow right up to the border now and let that grass grow long, after all, its not your grass...

Velvian · 22/12/2024 09:57

@BORN2BMILD , if the neighbour raises it again. I would say to him;

"Our boundary is here (walk him to 2 foot away from neighbour's fence, indicate boundary line). We don't have a fence up on our boundary, you will notice lots of neighbours don't have fences up either. Old neighbours put up a fence inside their own land to keep their dog secure. We have no objection to your fence being removed."

Hopefully that will be the way to go, it is not on the boundary, so not yours to maintain.

Blueblell · 22/12/2024 10:00

The fence is completely within their boundaries so I don’t see your involvement at all.

asthecrowdwaschantingmore · 22/12/2024 10:09

maximist · 18/12/2024 00:50

Hammer two posts into the ground and stretch a couple of lengths of wire between them. Instant boundary.

This. And use obvious, brightly painted posts if you really want to hammer the point home to him.

Suspect he's going to be a pain in the arse as a neighbour, sorry.

BORN2BMILD · 22/12/2024 10:34

Marshbird · 22/12/2024 09:50

Shared surface water culverts/pipes have a massive advantage over non shared- since law changed some years ago they HAVE to be owned by utility companies. So if they block it is utility companies responsisiblty. If they’re not shared it is always your house, your responsibility. There aren’t issues then anymore with shared utilities

just saying.

she’s not mentioned a soak away (did I miss that?) I assume it is a standard Dow pipe going into a surface water drain and into a utility company’s discharge drainage

just saying….a bit distracting for thread

It's under the drive. The soakaway, that is.

New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back
OP posts:
MILLYmo0se · 22/12/2024 10:49

There's no where for him to be moving that section of fence to though? He can't go around the pipe to put the fence on your land after all. All he can do is remove the section next to it and leave it open if it's bothering him so much.

MILLYmo0se · 22/12/2024 10:50

What exactly is his proposal to fix the 'problem'?

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