New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back

[BORN2BMILD]

I have lived in my house for getting on 40 years. Our wonderful (and sadly now ex) next-door neighbours bought the house on the attached side of our semi-detached house in 2012.

There was a lot of work for them to do, including sorting out the front garden which was in a mess. We had a drive on ours, albeit not in the best of condition, so when the neighbours told us they were getting a driveway installed too (this was about 2014) we asked if we could go in with them and have ours re-done at the same time, using the same contractors.

Our neighbours also had plans to install a footpath from the proposed drive, across the section of grass that would remain, to the their front door & side access. We liked these plans, and asked for the same. Our neighbours organised everything, and we paid for all of the work that took place on our side.

The work was done, and we ended up with one continuous driveway across the two properties, and matching footpaths from the drive to our respective front doors. The dropped kerb runs all the way from my side to theirs (It's the size of 2x double dropped kerb).

Soon after, the neighbours installed a 4ft fence all around the three sides of their grassed area of the front garden, with a gate leading to their new footpath. We did not desire a fence, so did not duplicate this on our side.

However, in the middle of our two properties, up against the house and on the boundary, there is a soakaway drain with a waste pipe from the guttering that runs across the front of the roofs of both our houses. Although the drain is in the middle and on the boundary, there is more of it on our neigbours side than ours.

Because of this, when the neighbours had their fence installed, they went about 20 inches from the boundary on their side, so that all of the drain was on my side of their fence, as doing it the other way so that the drain was in their side meant having their fence over my side of the boundary. In other words, we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden.

This was their choice, and for all the years they lived there, life was very good. Sadly, they moved about three months ago.

Today I bumped into the man who has bought the house (it's a family but we've seen very little of them). He was pleasant enough, but mentioned that he's aware that we have part of their garden and that in the new year he plans to see about taking it back. I told him we have absolutely no issue with this what so ever, and that we'd never asked for the fence to be put where it was, so if he wanted to move it, that was up to him.

But then he said it was our responsibility to get this done, at the least pay for it! He said he'd checked the deeds and that the boundary is ours to maintain (this is correct, as we went through all of this 10+ years ago when getting the driveway done) and therefore I would need to meet the cost of the fence being moved to what he calls the "correct" position.

I told him that even though we are responsible on the deeds for the boundary, there is nothing that says we have to have a fence, and nothing that says if one is fitted that I have to maintain it. I pointed out that in an estate of over 100 houses, there are only two with fences round the front gardens, and that having his fence installed was a choice that the previous owners made, not me.

It is further complicated by the fact that the drive is one continuous section, with no distinction between their and ours - ultimately, two cars can park side -by-side on each side (so effectively four cars in a row across two properties) and as our neighours had two cars (same as we do) we only ever parked on our respective sides, leaving plenty of room between our car and theirs. It's never been a problem.

My question is this - what (if anything) do I need to do now? And what action can my new neigbour take over a fence which has nothing to do with me at all?

Diagram attached - the red section is the 3-sided fence which I speak of, and the yellow rectangle between the two houses is the drain that sits mostly over their side of the boundary. The thick purple line is the boundary, and the thick orange line is the end of the drive where it meets the public footpath.

TIA.

All I will say is it's made me wary. I won't use this as the benchmark for all future neighbourly relations with them, but it will certainly be in the back of my mind as a template - a "window" into his mindsets, if you will.

I’d tell him the fence isn’t a boundary and never was - that the people before him put it up to protect their dog, not to mark the boundary. So he’s free to do with it what he wishes. At his own cost since it’s a structure on his property.

he sounds like a prick - his greeting to his new neighbours is to ask for them to do work for him at their expense.

@Applepoop A new owner probably knows where the boundary is. He’s trying it on.

@BORN2BMILD I know what you mean. People seem friendly but then attempt to put the boot in. Our house is detached and some distance from anyone else’s! We haven’t applied for anything unreasonable. We’ve got what we’ve applied for. We have a coterie of objectors here and new people tag on to their new best friends and object. You just have to stand your ground and stay cool!

I don’t get the confusion of some posters. Your diagram and posts were clear

this is a fence on his property. It’s nothing to do with you just like a shed on his property wouldn’t be anything to do with you. He can take it down if he likes. But building a new fence is an entirely separate issue that he is trying to pretend is all part of the same issue. He wants to build a new fence at the proper boundary and wants you to pay half. You absolutely don’t have to do this if you don’t want a fence.

i Would just reiterate to him that whatever he chooses to do on his property is up to him. If he keeps trying to say there needs to be a new fence just say you don’t want a fence but if he wants one on his side of the boundary that’s up to him.

I don’t get the confusion of some posters. Your diagram and posts were clear.

Ah yes, but it seems I muddied the waters somewhat by saying things such as "we gained a strip of grass" and "my side of his fence" and so on. I mean when I look at it word-by-word, I have to agree, I could've worded it with more clarity to ensure no one actually thought I was claiming / using / had been gifted something that wasn't mine / was never mine / would never be mine / clearly hoped one day might become mine.

OTOH, we (my husband and I) had a really good laugh at the comment that said we do not have a side of our neighbours fence, as it's not my fence it his, and it's not on the boundary. Almost as if everything that physically exists on "my side" of his fence isn't actually there. We've already looked at the fence and said "we don't have a side of that fence on our side" and laughed. I can't help wonder how long it will take for that joke to start getting right on my tits. Boxing day, I expect, and historically it'll be my husband that chooses to carry on saying it long after I've enjoyed the banter for a sufficient period of time.

It's a fence in his garden, not a boundary fence, he can do what he likes with it. As for marking the boundary check but I suspect you can do that however you please (or maybe not at all). You certainly don't need to match his fence or anything.

I'd thoroughly agree. Stop mowing that bit which, on the deeds, belongs to your new twatty neighbour. But, there's nothing to stop you scattering some packets of wild-flower meadow seeds on that precise bit. So that, when the grass grows high and the demarcation between unmowed and mowed becomes clear, you'll have a mini-wildflower meadow to appreciate. And make a silent point.

My dh does football, they have a spray for marking a line on the pitch for penalties. That's what you need. Just like hair mousse. I also think your posts are perfectly clear.

Just tell neighbor to do what he wants with the fence; it’s no concern of yours. I would continue to mow his nearly two extra feet for my own sanity. I guess he feels a little bit cheated losing two feet of grass. Not sure how I would feel about that but I know it’s not your problem since you didn’t put the fence up. Good luck to you.

so the fence your former neighbour put up over 12 years ago us still standing in the same place he erected it on his land, has passed the baton on to the new owner.

Fencing is a funny thing, if the neighbours replace a fence then the upkeep is down to them, even if it says it’s your fence on the deeds, but if you the fence owner can prove the neighbours changed the fence, it’s their responsibility until you replace their fence

Approximately this, yes. His fence in the garden is no more my problem than had the previous neighbours fitted a rotary washing line that was also away from the boundary.

From the time the houses were built C1981, there were no fences around the front gardens. About ten years ago, my then next-door neighbour installed one around the lawned part of their garden.

According to the deeds, I am responsible for maintaining the boundary, although what that means exactly I don't know, as there are no fences on the boundary, there are no requirements for a fence to be there (and conversely nothing to say there can't be one), and nothing to say that if a fence is fitted it becomes my responsibility / my property / a thorn in my side, although on that point it looks like it might become such.

When the previous neighbours installed the fence, they did not run said fence up to the boundary between the two houses - they went 20 inches or so away from it on their side, because of the drain being in the way. Prior to all this, we had one huge patch of lawn that ran the length & width of the two houses.

Because the lawn remained as it was, albeit a section of it fenced off, I had a section of the neighbours grass that's roughly 20 inches by 10 feet on what I (foolishly) referred to earlier as being on "my side of the fence".

New neighbour has asked me to pay in full for the fence to be extended to the boundary line, but in all of the things that is never, ever going to happen in my lifetime, this is the one that isn't going to happen the most.

Did u buy the property new?

Write politely to him.

Say to him the fence was erected by the previous owner.

It was put up on his land and belongs to him. If it was on the boundary and had been erected by you it would be your responsibility.

Therefore it's completely up to him what he does it his fence.

Tell him if he is moving it, it should be on his side of the boundary and you'll have no issue with this.
However, your preference would be no fencing as in keeping with the majority of your neighbours.

I'd also mark your actual boundary with two short hammer in posts and some thick wire and a stable gun. This will be your boundary to maintain.

Job done.

You have no legal obligation to have a fence only a boundary. And certainly not to move one that's on someone else's land to their preferred location!

If they want a fence they are entitled to one, but it must be on their land not yours. And at their expense.

Cheeky neighbours.

No, we are the second owners. We arrived in 1985 - same day that Eastenders went on air. I remember it very well, as my husband was threatened (possibly by me) with castration if he did not get the television tuned in & working by the time the opening credits rolled, as I was keen to watch.

the only reason I asked was you may have all the original sales brochures.

in the early 80s, new builds didn’t have fencing in the front mainly to help the street look more open.

you do maintain the boundary, you mow it!

if he chooses to take down the fence that’s his business, but it’s not going on the boundary line or my garden because maintenance will be an issue.

Its a pity the recent storms didn’t take it completely out, hopefully the next ones will

Do you still watch Eastenders @BORN2BMILD ?

Only when there's nothing more light-hearted & entertaining to watch, like Panorama.

I suspect your new neighbour had a slight panic when he realised that the fence wasn’t on the border. And his solicitor probably pointed it out too. So he’s worried you have claimed that bit of land. Especially as he can see you have been tending to it.
I think you are sensible to just do nothing at this stage. Don’t bring it up with him write to him or mention it in any way. A polite good morning nice day etc as you would with any neighbour. But I would stop mowing that strip of lawn. It might look a bit odd to start with, but it would show him you don’t consider it to be yours.
If he raises the issue again, well it’s his fence if he wants to take it down that’s entirely up to him. You maintain the border by mowing it but you won’t be putting up a fence as you don’t want one. End of story. You know there is no obligation to put up a fence so just stand firm.

Fence is on their property therefore their responsibility. I would just mark the boundary with painted line and tell him that is all you intend to do and if he wants to move his fence it can be installed anywhere from the white line on his side and it remains his property and his to maintain as whilst the boundary is yours to maintain there is no requirement for a fence to be in place. The fence was never yours in the first place as you said, its on his land and for his convenience not yours.

However this could lead to a fall out. so you might want to get legal opinion with a sol letter and then suggest something that might suit or alternatively mediate it otherwise could get costly.

I mean if it was a shed or greenhouse in the middle of his back garden he wouldn't expect you to sort it its crazy

Just to say we had a similar situation but ours was there was a line of chinese laurel between our two houses. We knew where the boundary was as did neighbour but at some point to keep dogs in a dog leg fence was placed around the trees. We had tress removed as neighbour claimed they were ours - so we thought right then and removed the lot roots and all - gaining some 16ft in the process (yes v overgrown). The property changed hands a few times and lucky for us neighbour amenable to a proper sort out and in the end we both had a significant portion of drive back and whilst there is a small kink in the fence of about 6 inches to allow a log shelter all is good. We were v lucky and even though not our fence we contributed as it was to our advantage to get what we wanted for the divide and have a say

You need to start calling this strip of land "No Mans Land" then you wont be accused by some posters of claiming the strip of land and calling it yours when infact in all of your posts you have clearly said its not your land, you mow it to keep it looking nice and the neighbours can have it back.

is the neighbour allowed to put a fence on the actual boundary line as you are responsible for the boundary?

I'd be tempted to send a bill for the upkeep. Say that you provided your mowing services to the previous neighbour for free but unfortunately with inflation/COL you're going to have to charge from now on.

The boundary may be your responsibility but the fence isn't on the boundary, so it's his problem.

The way I see it is that you have been maintaining the boundary by mowing the strip of grass between his fence and your side of the boundary.
The fence is firmly on his side of the boundary and is not a boundary marker therefore none of your responsibility.
However I would suggest seeking legal clarification on this. Check your home insurance to see if you have legal cover on there, if so use it to get some free advice on the situation.

OP doesn't need to bother with legal advice, she isn't disputing the boundary.

The only thing the neighbour could possibly ask of her is not to trespass on his 20 inches by mowing it (😜), which I'm sure she would have no issue with. She can ignore anything about moving/paying for fences as it's a non issue.