New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back

[BORN2BMILD]

I have lived in my house for getting on 40 years. Our wonderful (and sadly now ex) next-door neighbours bought the house on the attached side of our semi-detached house in 2012.

There was a lot of work for them to do, including sorting out the front garden which was in a mess. We had a drive on ours, albeit not in the best of condition, so when the neighbours told us they were getting a driveway installed too (this was about 2014) we asked if we could go in with them and have ours re-done at the same time, using the same contractors.

Our neighbours also had plans to install a footpath from the proposed drive, across the section of grass that would remain, to the their front door & side access. We liked these plans, and asked for the same. Our neighbours organised everything, and we paid for all of the work that took place on our side.

The work was done, and we ended up with one continuous driveway across the two properties, and matching footpaths from the drive to our respective front doors. The dropped kerb runs all the way from my side to theirs (It's the size of 2x double dropped kerb).

Soon after, the neighbours installed a 4ft fence all around the three sides of their grassed area of the front garden, with a gate leading to their new footpath. We did not desire a fence, so did not duplicate this on our side.

However, in the middle of our two properties, up against the house and on the boundary, there is a soakaway drain with a waste pipe from the guttering that runs across the front of the roofs of both our houses. Although the drain is in the middle and on the boundary, there is more of it on our neigbours side than ours.

Because of this, when the neighbours had their fence installed, they went about 20 inches from the boundary on their side, so that all of the drain was on my side of their fence, as doing it the other way so that the drain was in their side meant having their fence over my side of the boundary. In other words, we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden.

This was their choice, and for all the years they lived there, life was very good. Sadly, they moved about three months ago.

Today I bumped into the man who has bought the house (it's a family but we've seen very little of them). He was pleasant enough, but mentioned that he's aware that we have part of their garden and that in the new year he plans to see about taking it back. I told him we have absolutely no issue with this what so ever, and that we'd never asked for the fence to be put where it was, so if he wanted to move it, that was up to him.

But then he said it was our responsibility to get this done, at the least pay for it! He said he'd checked the deeds and that the boundary is ours to maintain (this is correct, as we went through all of this 10+ years ago when getting the driveway done) and therefore I would need to meet the cost of the fence being moved to what he calls the "correct" position.

I told him that even though we are responsible on the deeds for the boundary, there is nothing that says we have to have a fence, and nothing that says if one is fitted that I have to maintain it. I pointed out that in an estate of over 100 houses, there are only two with fences round the front gardens, and that having his fence installed was a choice that the previous owners made, not me.

It is further complicated by the fact that the drive is one continuous section, with no distinction between their and ours - ultimately, two cars can park side -by-side on each side (so effectively four cars in a row across two properties) and as our neighours had two cars (same as we do) we only ever parked on our respective sides, leaving plenty of room between our car and theirs. It's never been a problem.

My question is this - what (if anything) do I need to do now? And what action can my new neigbour take over a fence which has nothing to do with me at all?

Diagram attached - the red section is the 3-sided fence which I speak of, and the yellow rectangle between the two houses is the drain that sits mostly over their side of the boundary. The thick purple line is the boundary, and the thick orange line is the end of the drive where it meets the public footpath.

TIA.

Because you are reasonable and most other people are too. This neighbour is not getting off on the right foot and I’d be sorely tempted to absolutely kill them with kindness and overindulgence so they leave you alone. I don’t mean capitulating to their demands but being so bloody nice and OTT they run a mile ;)

It’s not a boundary - it’s a fence they’ve put on their land nothing to do with you. Stop saying they gave you 20 inches of land - they didn’t they chose to fence their front yard 20 inches short of their boundary but their boundary is still their boundary

And stop mowing his 20 inches of land - let it grow he can mow it

No, I can't do that, because if you look at my diagram, this area of land is a continuation of my lawn, and runs up to his fence. To not mow it would mean I have a line of overgrown strip of grass that's roughly 10 feet by 20 inches. He can't even see it from his side, and it's on my side of his fence.

Maybe I'm not explaining it well, so I'll put it like this - previously there was one continuous lawn that stretched across the two houses- for arguments sake let's say it was 50 foot by 10 foot. My neighbour decides to fit a fence all around his section, but instead of putting the fence between us on the boundary line at 25 foot, he did it at roughly 23 foot on his side, leaving me 27 foot on my side, IYSWIM.

You explained it very well but it might be worth stopping mowing that section anyway. It might look a bit shit for a bit but shut the cheeky fuckers up.

You absolutely can and should stop mowing the 20" of lawn that is on his side. I know it's a continuous strip from your lawn, but if he's getting annoyed thinking you've taken his land, then it shows that you are not using his land as your own. Let it go overgrown, it's his to deal with.

Make sure you use wording regarding the fence, that it is NOT a boundary fence. It's just a fence within his own land, and that the boundary line never changed and that strip of land is and always has belonged to his house.

This is why you should stop mowing that small 20" wide strip, because it shows you are not treating it like it's your land, which might help him see that it's very much his.

So your old neighbour built a fence around PART of his garden to contain his dog.

Your old neighbour left part of his garden unfenced due to ease and aesthetics of the drain area.

It is not yours. It was not gifted.

It just wasn’t sectioned off on the advice if the builder due to the drain.

And if you have happened to mow it a few times.. that’s because you are a good neighbour and were saving the old neighbour the hassle of walking around his fence with his mower.

good luck.

We do completely understand this, and people are right to advise you not to mow that 20" strip. It's not petty, it's showing that you are not claiming his land as your own. It's irrelevant that he cannot see it, he knows it's there. It's irrelevant that it'll make your lawn look shabby at the side, but you have to demonstrate to him that you are not using his land.

Lots of neighbours have front lawns that continue from one property to the next, and lots just mow their own, it's perfectly ok to not mow that 20" strip, and really you need to stop maintaining that small 20" strip.

He can either remove the fence (which is his - he has just bought it!), or else you can indicate that you are of course entirely happy for him to walk around on his 2 feet strip of grass - or even have a picnic or a wild party there! - it is his land!

I hope you can resolve this with him without any aggro ensuing - that is that last thing you need!

At this rate, I'll be getting my own fence installed 1 inch away from my side of the boundary!

Ha! I get that it'll look unsightly, but just stand firm. And remember, do not ever call it your land or anything, be clear that the boundary remained and is still inline with the drainpipe.

As others have said, so long as it doesn’t state there must be a boundary fence then it’s totally his choice to have. I would remain polite and civil but stand firm. Otherwise you could find yourself being taken advantage of in future issues. Speaking from experience of very fucking cheeky neighbours!

Bravo for the diagram.

It’ll be a while yet before you need to cut any grass, so I would do nothing for now. You’ve behaved exactly as you should. He won’t keep the fence up for long, and likely it will be down before grass cutting season starts again.

If I were you I would continue to mow the ‘extra’ section of grass unless your neighbour has asked you not to. I don’t see how it benefits anyone for the grass to look unsightly. Take the earlier advice on the thread to do nothing, other than perhaps marking the boundary with a few large stones, rather than the later advice which just complicates matters.

If you need extra support in deciding what to do, use a low cost legal service like Which? Legal, rather than forum ‘solicitors’ whose confidence is often inversely proportional to their knowledge.

*ReadingSoManyThreads · *Today 01:39

but you have to demonstrate to him that you are not using his land.

No, you don’t.

You are mowing his grass. Therefore you are not maintaining the boundary. People are suggesting that you stop this. If you stop this, you will be maintaining your boundary. The fact there is 20 inches of grass on his side unmown not your concern.

If you want to erect a fence, you should do it on the boundary so that it is completely on your land and butting up to his property. Do not give erect the fence some distance inside your land as he sounds like the sort of person, who would dispute it if you do that and it could give you issues if you decide to sell. You could demarcate with a tiny plastic fence if you want. Or no fence at all.

Have you missed the fact that there was a physical reason that the fence wasn’t erected on the boundary in the first place?

"Nowt to do with us. Move the fence if you like, but don't block or interfere with the drain. It's up to you. Also, previous neighbours were happy for us to mow it, but we'll leave it for you from now on."

The neighbour can’t see the strip of grass so he doesn’t care what it looks like. He doesn’t have to mow it. There is no legal responsibility (in most cases anyway) to mow one’s grass. At most there is social pressure not to lower the tone of the neighbourhood. It will look to her neighbours like OP is not maintaining her land.

More pertinently, if her attached neighbour feels that the cost and hassle of moving the fence is too much, he may leave that strip of grass wild long-term as a way of punishing her for not doing what he wants. If she continues to mow the lawn, he is unlikely to tell her to stop. If she stops (to achieve what?) and then tries to restart if it becomes apparent he won’t mow it, he is more likely to have the confidence to tell her to stop mowing his grass.

You’re responsible for the boundary.

if he has a fence installed within his garden, that he doesn’t like, he can remove it. You have confirmed it doesn’t belong to you.
If he would like a fence reinstated on the boundary then he can discuss this with you. If you don’t want a fence on the boundary then you can decline. If he would still like to have a fence on the boundary, because it’s important to him, he’s most welcome to fund and install. The fence should, however sit on the boundary and therefore run up to the drain down pipe then stop. It doesn’t have to sit inside your boundary.

Legally I don’t think you can take down that fence even if you wanted to. It’s not yours, and I’d explain that to him.

This is exactly what I would do. Maybe a chain to divide the driveway. Just to mark the exact boundary and leave him to do what he wants with his fence. I would get in quick and mark the boundary as he sounds the type to try and encroach on your land. Do you have legal advice with your home insurance?

The shared soakaway across the boundary is pretty odd. Does the new neighbour know it’s there?

The fence is inside their garden, it isn't on the boundary, so it's nothing whatsoever to do with you. You cannot be responsible for something on their property.

Never mow his bit of grass again. If he complains tell him you thought he didn't want you to use it.

The fence is his property and it's on his land, what he does with it is his decision.

However, since he's a knob, and there's an awkward drain, I'd not want him installing a fence on your boundary line. If the boundary is yours to maintain don't allow him to put a fence on it, it muddies the waters. He can fence his own land upto the boundary but not on it.

I'd actually install my own two-posts-and-one-strand-of-wire fence as suggested by a PP because otherwise you know what's going to happen. You'll come home one day and find that because of the drain, he's stolen part of your garden. Ok so you can get the fence removed (end up with the hassle and labour of doing it yourself probably) but the chances of him filling in the holes and making good the turf are zero. Regardless of what the law says.

So just fence your own boundary for the purpose of blocking him off your land and let the knob go ape shit at your shonkey fence. You just know he's going to end up letting his visitors park over the line onto your side if you don't fence the boundary anyway, because "you're not using it and it's only 3ft over so why does it matter". He's never going to share nicely.

To not mow it would mean I have a line of overgrown strip of grass that's roughly 10 feet by 20 inches. He can't even see it from his side, and it's on my side of his fence.

This is irrelevant. It's his grass. He's a knob who thinks you're using his land. So stop using it. Deal with it looking shite. You can't help that, it's not your land. Leave the knob alone. He's already basically threatened you with legal action when you've done nothing wrong so you're not going to be friends. Disengage from him and his land entirely and mind your own business/protect your own land. It's the only way you'll get peace, unless you want to start asking how high, each time he snaps his fingers and tells you to jump.