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New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back

259 replies

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 00:28

I have lived in my house for getting on 40 years. Our wonderful (and sadly now ex) next-door neighbours bought the house on the attached side of our semi-detached house in 2012.

There was a lot of work for them to do, including sorting out the front garden which was in a mess. We had a drive on ours, albeit not in the best of condition, so when the neighbours told us they were getting a driveway installed too (this was about 2014) we asked if we could go in with them and have ours re-done at the same time, using the same contractors.

Our neighbours also had plans to install a footpath from the proposed drive, across the section of grass that would remain, to the their front door & side access. We liked these plans, and asked for the same. Our neighbours organised everything, and we paid for all of the work that took place on our side.

The work was done, and we ended up with one continuous driveway across the two properties, and matching footpaths from the drive to our respective front doors. The dropped kerb runs all the way from my side to theirs (It's the size of 2x double dropped kerb).

Soon after, the neighbours installed a 4ft fence all around the three sides of their grassed area of the front garden, with a gate leading to their new footpath. We did not desire a fence, so did not duplicate this on our side.

However, in the middle of our two properties, up against the house and on the boundary, there is a soakaway drain with a waste pipe from the guttering that runs across the front of the roofs of both our houses. Although the drain is in the middle and on the boundary, there is more of it on our neigbours side than ours.

Because of this, when the neighbours had their fence installed, they went about 20 inches from the boundary on their side, so that all of the drain was on my side of their fence, as doing it the other way so that the drain was in their side meant having their fence over my side of the boundary. In other words, we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden.

This was their choice, and for all the years they lived there, life was very good. Sadly, they moved about three months ago.

Today I bumped into the man who has bought the house (it's a family but we've seen very little of them). He was pleasant enough, but mentioned that he's aware that we have part of their garden and that in the new year he plans to see about taking it back. I told him we have absolutely no issue with this what so ever, and that we'd never asked for the fence to be put where it was, so if he wanted to move it, that was up to him.

But then he said it was our responsibility to get this done, at the least pay for it! He said he'd checked the deeds and that the boundary is ours to maintain (this is correct, as we went through all of this 10+ years ago when getting the driveway done) and therefore I would need to meet the cost of the fence being moved to what he calls the "correct" position.

I told him that even though we are responsible on the deeds for the boundary, there is nothing that says we have to have a fence, and nothing that says if one is fitted that I have to maintain it. I pointed out that in an estate of over 100 houses, there are only two with fences round the front gardens, and that having his fence installed was a choice that the previous owners made, not me.

It is further complicated by the fact that the drive is one continuous section, with no distinction between their and ours - ultimately, two cars can park side -by-side on each side (so effectively four cars in a row across two properties) and as our neighours had two cars (same as we do) we only ever parked on our respective sides, leaving plenty of room between our car and theirs. It's never been a problem.

My question is this - what (if anything) do I need to do now? And what action can my new neigbour take over a fence which has nothing to do with me at all?

Diagram attached - the red section is the 3-sided fence which I speak of, and the yellow rectangle between the two houses is the drain that sits mostly over their side of the boundary. The thick purple line is the boundary, and the thick orange line is the end of the drive where it meets the public footpath.

TIA.

New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back
OP posts:
Guest100 · 18/12/2024 00:32

Find out what your responsibilities are legally. If you don’t have to do anything then don’t. Make sure they understand it’s tricky with the drain. Maybe they don’t understand why it was done.

JingleB · 18/12/2024 00:32

I don’t think you need to do a thing. There is no requirement to have a fence. If he wants to take his fence down, he can do so.

BibbityBobbityToo · 18/12/2024 00:35

The fence is well within their boundary and was build by the previous owner so nothing to do with you.

Suggest they remove the fence as it belongs to them but you have no desire to put your own fence up as you didn't want one in the first place.

Enough4me · 18/12/2024 00:39

Firstly in no way accept responsibility.
If they try to take this further, all the proof so far is it being a chosen boundary on their land.
Consistently and briefly say, it's your property on your land.

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 00:41

Enough4me · 18/12/2024 00:39

Firstly in no way accept responsibility.
If they try to take this further, all the proof so far is it being a chosen boundary on their land.
Consistently and briefly say, it's your property on your land.

Consistently and briefly say, it's your property on your land.

Thanks for your reply. Please could you clarify this part?

OP posts:
TiredCatLady · 18/12/2024 00:41

A truly excellent diagram OP.

As per PP, fence is nowt to do with you and there has been no actual change to the boundaries.

SensitivePetal · 18/12/2024 00:42

He’s bought the house as is. Caveat emptor.

You’re not contesting the ownership so he’s basically asking you to pay to erect a fence on your own land. Hard no. If he wants his 20cm back he moves the fence, the absolute pillock.

spoonfulofsugar1 · 18/12/2024 00:42

Excellent diagram :) tell him if he wishes to remove the fence to reclaim his land he is able to do so but that you won't be paying for anything
He may seem pleasant, but there's something about neighbours and boundary disputes that brings out the CF part of people

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 00:43

SensitivePetal · 18/12/2024 00:42

He’s bought the house as is. Caveat emptor.

You’re not contesting the ownership so he’s basically asking you to pay to erect a fence on your own land. Hard no. If he wants his 20cm back he moves the fence, the absolute pillock.

For clarity, 20 inches, not centimeters (almost 2 foot).

OP posts:
slightlydistrac · 18/12/2024 00:43

Buy or find two decent-sized stones. Put one up against the house at the boundary line, and the other on the boundary at the end of the grass where it meets the driveways.

You can then let him know that you have installed boundary markers and will maintain them diligently. There is no requirement for the boundary to be a fence.

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 00:44

spoonfulofsugar1 · 18/12/2024 00:42

Excellent diagram :) tell him if he wishes to remove the fence to reclaim his land he is able to do so but that you won't be paying for anything
He may seem pleasant, but there's something about neighbours and boundary disputes that brings out the CF part of people

there's something about neighbours and boundary disputes that brings out the CF part of people

This is my worry...

OP posts:
SensitivePetal · 18/12/2024 00:47

Is he actually trying to redraw the boundaries (via useage/ your consent) to remove the shared facility (soak away?)

This might not be a bad thing as shared services and driveways can be a major turnoff for buyers but if so he is going about it in a very cackhanded way.

It might also involve legal costs on both sides though: I wouldn’t be inclined to pay those as the incumbent who’s lived there for many years, on the urging of Johnny Big Bollocks 😂

maximist · 18/12/2024 00:50

Hammer two posts into the ground and stretch a couple of lengths of wire between them. Instant boundary.

Boltonb · 18/12/2024 00:51

Essentially he has a random fence on his land, erected by the previous owner. Absolutely nothing to do with you. If he doesn’t want it there, he can remove it.

Even if you are responsible for “maintaining the boundary” there is no legal requirement for there to be a fence.

Therefore tell him that he’s absolutely welcome to remove the fence, as it’s clearly on his land. You could also tell him that you consent to him moving the fence to align with the property boundary if he wants a fence up, but you will not be paying for any of the work involved.

You can’t remove the fence as it’s on his land, but you absolutely do not have to pay to move it.

If he gets difficult, I’m sure you can get advice from a solicitor to put him right.

SensitivePetal · 18/12/2024 00:54

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 00:43

For clarity, 20 inches, not centimeters (almost 2 foot).

Ah, ok. So a bit more land.

Fact remains though that his solicitor will absolutely have advised him about this anomaly unless he went through some shitty conveyancing shed. He knew what he was buying or should have.

You’re right that boundary disputes provoke mini napoleons in inadequate me. 9/10 it’s men, unfortunately (made up stat, probably more like 99/100 ;))

You dont have to pay for anyone else’s fence. You don’t even have to pay for your own fence if you don’t care about a fence! If your neighbour is desperate to reclaim his territory then he could get out there with the shiplap board and the postcrete.

TheUsualChaos · 18/12/2024 00:55

Strange to have a fence round a front garden. Anyway, I would just keep saying he's welcome to move the fence but you are not obliged to pay for it.

SensitivePetal · 18/12/2024 00:55

Inadequate *men.

I'm inadequate some of the time but not generally

InkHeart2024 · 18/12/2024 00:56

What a strange man! The fence is nothing to do with you, and if he doesn't like it being where it is, he's free to move it (up to the boundary line) or remove it. He's being ridiculous to think it's your responsibility!

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 00:57

SensitivePetal · 18/12/2024 00:47

Is he actually trying to redraw the boundaries (via useage/ your consent) to remove the shared facility (soak away?)

This might not be a bad thing as shared services and driveways can be a major turnoff for buyers but if so he is going about it in a very cackhanded way.

It might also involve legal costs on both sides though: I wouldn’t be inclined to pay those as the incumbent who’s lived there for many years, on the urging of Johnny Big Bollocks 😂

No. he's not. He's saying the fence is further from the boundary on his side than it could actually be, and therefore we have some of his land on our side, which we "use". I put the word "use" in speech marks, as it's a section of grass approximately 20 inches wide and 10 feet long that makes our section of grass that much bigger. But as for "use" it, it's not like we've built on it!

Before the ex-neighbours installed a fence, we had one continuous lawn with nothing at all to mark the boundary. Back in the day when we were younger, we'd often mow all of the grass on both sides, to help our neighbour (who at that point was an elderly man). Then when the ex-neighbours moved in, we just mowed our own sides, and as I said, within two years they fenced off their section, making our section 10ft by 20 inches bigger. We never asked for this land, nor have we tried to claim it as ours.

I pointed out to the new neighbour that it was the location of the drain that led my ex-neighbour to have the fence installed where he did, and that if he (new neighbour) wants to move the fence and can do so in a way that means the drain is still usable, I'm all for it. I mean I really really couldn't care less.

But I'm not getting involved in it, nor am I paying for it.

OP posts:
Enough4me · 18/12/2024 00:57

The fence is his property which he owns, you don't have a fence. You are maintaining the border leaving the space open is your maintenance.

Floralnomad · 18/12/2024 00:57

Just ignore him , if he wants to move his fence he can just ensure he stays on his side it is absolutely not your problem .

slightlydistrac · 18/12/2024 00:58

The fence does not mark the boundary. It's not even your fence. You didn't put it up, the previous owners did, presumably because they thought it looked nice.

If the new owners aren't happy, they can leave the fence where it is, move it to the boundary, or take it down altogether. It's nothing to do with you at all. You haven't marked the boundary around the rest of your garden at all, and nor have most of your other neighbours around theirs.

Basically then, he hasn't got a leg to stand on.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/12/2024 00:59

I think you've told him clearly what the position is - it's not a boundary fence, it's just a fence that your previous neighbours chose to put on their land.

However it sounds like he has the choice of leaving the fence where it is or taking it down because a fence can't be installed on the boundary line on top of the soakaway drain. If it could have been, that's where your neighbour would have put it presumably?
You may need to make this clear to him.

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 01:02

TheUsualChaos · 18/12/2024 00:55

Strange to have a fence round a front garden. Anyway, I would just keep saying he's welcome to move the fence but you are not obliged to pay for it.

You'd have to see it to appreciate it - it looks really tidy. We live on a very quiet 1980s estate (for those old enough to remember the sitcom Ever Decreasing Circles, it's very much like that) with only one way in and out. The ex-neighbours had a small dog who they liked to allow in the front garden, so they fenced it off, and as a complete aside they would often sit out there in the summer - it was wonderful in lockdown, as we sat on our side chatting to them, albeit feeling very conspicuous compared to them with their fence that neatly hid them away!

OP posts:
BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 01:09

ErrolTheDragon · 18/12/2024 00:59

I think you've told him clearly what the position is - it's not a boundary fence, it's just a fence that your previous neighbours chose to put on their land.

However it sounds like he has the choice of leaving the fence where it is or taking it down because a fence can't be installed on the boundary line on top of the soakaway drain. If it could have been, that's where your neighbour would have put it presumably?
You may need to make this clear to him.

In all honesty, I wouldn't even care if it came 10 inches the other way into my garden - it's just grass, and had the previous owners asked me, I would have let them have the additional area of grass.

But those neighbours were exceptionally reasonable people, and ever keen to avoid disruption. They'd mentioned getting a fence, but we didn't go into a discussion about it as we had no desire to replicate that particular feature, unlike the driveway and footpath, which required a lot of communication.

They just mentioned a fence, and when work started we realised they were forfeiting about 20 inches of their lawn. They never mentioned it, never said "this is yours", and I can't recall it ever cropping up in conversation. We just mowed it when we did our lawn.

OP posts: