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New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back

259 replies

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 00:28

I have lived in my house for getting on 40 years. Our wonderful (and sadly now ex) next-door neighbours bought the house on the attached side of our semi-detached house in 2012.

There was a lot of work for them to do, including sorting out the front garden which was in a mess. We had a drive on ours, albeit not in the best of condition, so when the neighbours told us they were getting a driveway installed too (this was about 2014) we asked if we could go in with them and have ours re-done at the same time, using the same contractors.

Our neighbours also had plans to install a footpath from the proposed drive, across the section of grass that would remain, to the their front door & side access. We liked these plans, and asked for the same. Our neighbours organised everything, and we paid for all of the work that took place on our side.

The work was done, and we ended up with one continuous driveway across the two properties, and matching footpaths from the drive to our respective front doors. The dropped kerb runs all the way from my side to theirs (It's the size of 2x double dropped kerb).

Soon after, the neighbours installed a 4ft fence all around the three sides of their grassed area of the front garden, with a gate leading to their new footpath. We did not desire a fence, so did not duplicate this on our side.

However, in the middle of our two properties, up against the house and on the boundary, there is a soakaway drain with a waste pipe from the guttering that runs across the front of the roofs of both our houses. Although the drain is in the middle and on the boundary, there is more of it on our neigbours side than ours.

Because of this, when the neighbours had their fence installed, they went about 20 inches from the boundary on their side, so that all of the drain was on my side of their fence, as doing it the other way so that the drain was in their side meant having their fence over my side of the boundary. In other words, we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden.

This was their choice, and for all the years they lived there, life was very good. Sadly, they moved about three months ago.

Today I bumped into the man who has bought the house (it's a family but we've seen very little of them). He was pleasant enough, but mentioned that he's aware that we have part of their garden and that in the new year he plans to see about taking it back. I told him we have absolutely no issue with this what so ever, and that we'd never asked for the fence to be put where it was, so if he wanted to move it, that was up to him.

But then he said it was our responsibility to get this done, at the least pay for it! He said he'd checked the deeds and that the boundary is ours to maintain (this is correct, as we went through all of this 10+ years ago when getting the driveway done) and therefore I would need to meet the cost of the fence being moved to what he calls the "correct" position.

I told him that even though we are responsible on the deeds for the boundary, there is nothing that says we have to have a fence, and nothing that says if one is fitted that I have to maintain it. I pointed out that in an estate of over 100 houses, there are only two with fences round the front gardens, and that having his fence installed was a choice that the previous owners made, not me.

It is further complicated by the fact that the drive is one continuous section, with no distinction between their and ours - ultimately, two cars can park side -by-side on each side (so effectively four cars in a row across two properties) and as our neighours had two cars (same as we do) we only ever parked on our respective sides, leaving plenty of room between our car and theirs. It's never been a problem.

My question is this - what (if anything) do I need to do now? And what action can my new neigbour take over a fence which has nothing to do with me at all?

Diagram attached - the red section is the 3-sided fence which I speak of, and the yellow rectangle between the two houses is the drain that sits mostly over their side of the boundary. The thick purple line is the boundary, and the thick orange line is the end of the drive where it meets the public footpath.

TIA.

New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back
OP posts:
CellophaneFlower · 18/12/2024 10:23

HappyTwo · 18/12/2024 10:15

Going forward you need to get your head around this is not your land - you did not buy it and you do not own it and you will not own it unless he sells it to you. What's been happening is you have kindly been mowing it for your neighbour in the sake of keeping the whole area tidy. He should really be paying you! I would have a chat with him and say this is not a boundary fence - it was put up by the previous neighbour to keep their dog in. I've been mowing it for ease to keep the whole area tidy - do you want me to keep mowing it or shall I stop as its your land and you want to sort it.

OP doesn't need to get her head around anything. It's quite clear from her posts and what she says she's said to her neighbour that she's aware it's not her land.

anniegun · 18/12/2024 10:26

Its pretty straightforward. He has a fence on his land . If he wants to remove it that is up to him , not you.

Gekko21 · 18/12/2024 10:49

Could you have a casual chat to the man's partner if you see them in the street? They might be more reasonable. As PPs have mentioned, often it's one person in the relationship that has a chippy attitude. The partner might be perfectly pleasant and 'have words' with the other.

I also like the idea of the flower bed border. If they insist, I'd just buy some of the low lying border stones or wood and demarcate the border that way. You won't need to dig very deep at all and it's easily removed if you need to access the drain at any point.

Tupster · 18/12/2024 11:47

While I absolutely agree with all the points above where this is clearly not your fence or responsibility, I do just want to add the warning that this is a brand new neighbour who you could be living next to for many years and so this isn't really a situation where you want to get into a big F you situation.
You have said he was pleasant when you spoke (despite the expectation of you doing it or paying for it) and that you have told him that you are find with the fence going. I think the answer to "what do I do now?" is really to do absolutely nothing, and just focus on maintaining a friendly relationship - say hello when you pass, take in parcels when needed etc. Wait and see what happens from here. There's absolutely no physical activity that you need to take and nothing you need or want to do to stop him removing the fence so the ball is in his court around making any further demands. It might be that he quickly sees that this is nothing to do with you and there's no point you doing anything that might stoke bad feeling if it can actually all blow over.

nightmarepickle2025 · 18/12/2024 11:58

The fence isn’t the boundary, it’s on their side, so I can’t see how it’s your responsibility, but I mostly just came on to congratulate you on your lovely diagram

heldinadream · 18/12/2024 14:06

Tupster · 18/12/2024 11:47

While I absolutely agree with all the points above where this is clearly not your fence or responsibility, I do just want to add the warning that this is a brand new neighbour who you could be living next to for many years and so this isn't really a situation where you want to get into a big F you situation.
You have said he was pleasant when you spoke (despite the expectation of you doing it or paying for it) and that you have told him that you are find with the fence going. I think the answer to "what do I do now?" is really to do absolutely nothing, and just focus on maintaining a friendly relationship - say hello when you pass, take in parcels when needed etc. Wait and see what happens from here. There's absolutely no physical activity that you need to take and nothing you need or want to do to stop him removing the fence so the ball is in his court around making any further demands. It might be that he quickly sees that this is nothing to do with you and there's no point you doing anything that might stoke bad feeling if it can actually all blow over.

Wisdom. Right there. ^^
Do nothing.
See what happens.
Might all be fine if he comes to his senses. If he persists that you are in some way responsible for something or other think again. But for now keep shtum and stay pleasant.
Oh and keep us posted please!

ClementineChurchill · 18/12/2024 14:17

Excellent diagram OP! A model of the genre.

HappyTwo · 18/12/2024 19:56

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 01:30

No, I can't do that, because if you look at my diagram, this area of land is a continuation of my lawn, and runs up to his fence. To not mow it would mean I have a line of overgrown strip of grass that's roughly 10 feet by 20 inches. He can't even see it from his side, and it's on my side of his fence.

Maybe I'm not explaining it well, so I'll put it like this - previously there was one continuous lawn that stretched across the two houses- for arguments sake let's say it was 50 foot by 10 foot. My neighbour decides to fit a fence all around his section, but instead of putting the fence between us on the boundary line at 25 foot, he did it at roughly 23 foot on his side, leaving me 27 foot on my side, IYSWIM.

It’s not that you are not explaining yourself well - it’s you keep thinking because of the neighbours fence you own this land now and you don’t. If you were to sell your property this land would not be part of the sale

HappyTwo · 18/12/2024 19:59

CellophaneFlower · 18/12/2024 10:23

OP doesn't need to get her head around anything. It's quite clear from her posts and what she says she's said to her neighbour that she's aware it's not her land.

But this comment suggests she sees it as her land:”No, I can't do that, because if you look at my diagram, this area of land is a continuation of my lawn, and runs up to his fence. To not mow it would mean I have a line of overgrown strip of grass that's roughly 10 feet by 20 inches. He can't even see it from his side, and it's on my side of his fence.” She will not have a line of overgrown grass - her neighbour will. She does not have a side to his fence because it’s not on her boundary.

heldinadream · 18/12/2024 20:00

HappyTwo · 18/12/2024 19:56

It’s not that you are not explaining yourself well - it’s you keep thinking because of the neighbours fence you own this land now and you don’t. If you were to sell your property this land would not be part of the sale

No she doesn't. @BORN2BMILD has been really clear throughout that she knows this bit is not hers. That's not the issue.
God people's reading comprehension is truly awful.

MzHz · 18/12/2024 20:06

JingleB · 18/12/2024 00:32

I don’t think you need to do a thing. There is no requirement to have a fence. If he wants to take his fence down, he can do so.

Yeah, that’s what I feel too. Fence ISNT on the boundary, it’s well within their land, they want to move it, crack on!

do nothing, not your fence, not your boundary, not your problem

Movinghouseatlast · 18/12/2024 20:08

Just refer him to gov.uk where the law/ rules on fences are laid out and it says quite clearly that if you are responsible for the boundary it doesn't have to be a fence.

He clearly doesn't understand the law.

Seeingadistance · 18/12/2024 20:11

I agree with HappyTwo.

Although the OP does understand that the legal boundary is unchanged, she does also have a sense that the strip of lawn on her side of the fence has become hers. It's there in the thread heading - New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back - and in the body of her first post when she says, in relation to the former neighbours' positioning of the fence, "we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden."

Edited to add - this is in response to heldinadream.

Edited again to add - that in her diagram, the OP indicates that the expanded grass area is hers. She hasn't labelled the strip between the boundary and the fence as belonging to her neighbour.

Weefreetiffany · 18/12/2024 20:29

You know technically its yours by way of adverse posession

buttonousmaximous · 18/12/2024 20:39

The fence is theirs it's not even on your property so they can do whatever they want with it.

The boarder if it's yours to maintain it's your responsibility but as you said you don't have to do a fence

Iliketulips · 18/12/2024 21:01

They're the ones that want to move the fence which is on their property, it's their responsibility to move it within their boundary. Do not pay or even contribute to this as you accept responsibility for maintenance. They clearly bought the property knowing the fence was on what would be their land and they've had time to knock on your door before purchase to clarify what you agree to.

In this instance, you shouldn't be forced to install a fence/wall or other unless you want it.

BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 21:20

HappyTwo · 18/12/2024 19:56

It’s not that you are not explaining yourself well - it’s you keep thinking because of the neighbours fence you own this land now and you don’t. If you were to sell your property this land would not be part of the sale

Not once here have I said that at all. Nowhere. I have explained why for 10 years I have cut the grass on this 20 inch by 10 foot section of grass that is literally a continuation of my lawn.

OP posts:
BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 21:24

HappyTwo · 18/12/2024 19:59

But this comment suggests she sees it as her land:”No, I can't do that, because if you look at my diagram, this area of land is a continuation of my lawn, and runs up to his fence. To not mow it would mean I have a line of overgrown strip of grass that's roughly 10 feet by 20 inches. He can't even see it from his side, and it's on my side of his fence.” She will not have a line of overgrown grass - her neighbour will. She does not have a side to his fence because it’s not on her boundary.

I have a "side to his fence" in as much as anyone has a side to anything that is adjacent to them. If you stood next to me and painted a line on the floor between us, I would still call the side I was standing on "my side". I'd call your side where you were standing "your side". It would still be your line and your paint used to mark it.

When I say "my side" in context, I am referring to the space on planet earth that I purchased, which is on the opposite side of a fence that my neighbour owns.

OP posts:
BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 21:26

Seeingadistance · 18/12/2024 20:11

I agree with HappyTwo.

Although the OP does understand that the legal boundary is unchanged, she does also have a sense that the strip of lawn on her side of the fence has become hers. It's there in the thread heading - New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back - and in the body of her first post when she says, in relation to the former neighbours' positioning of the fence, "we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden."

Edited to add - this is in response to heldinadream.

Edited again to add - that in her diagram, the OP indicates that the expanded grass area is hers. She hasn't labelled the strip between the boundary and the fence as belonging to her neighbour.

Edited

Well I also say in my OP that I told the new neighbour to take it back. My issue is he told me it needs to be done at my expense.

OP posts:
BORN2BMILD · 18/12/2024 21:33

Seeingadistance · 18/12/2024 20:11

I agree with HappyTwo.

Although the OP does understand that the legal boundary is unchanged, she does also have a sense that the strip of lawn on her side of the fence has become hers. It's there in the thread heading - New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back - and in the body of her first post when she says, in relation to the former neighbours' positioning of the fence, "we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden."

Edited to add - this is in response to heldinadream.

Edited again to add - that in her diagram, the OP indicates that the expanded grass area is hers. She hasn't labelled the strip between the boundary and the fence as belonging to her neighbour.

Edited

I have amended my diagram accordingly. HTH.

New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back
OP posts:
BrieHugger · 18/12/2024 21:45

Just do what a PP said and put some large stones along (and within) your side of the true boundary. You have then maintained the boundary line. It is nothing to do with you that the previous neighbours put their own fence up and diddled themselves of land.

What new neighbour wants is for you to put a fence on your side so he can simply take his out instead of moving it.

Tell him he’s welcome to move it as far up to the stones as he likes.

Escaperoom · 18/12/2024 22:02

If you don't want/can't erect a fence on the boundary due to the drain, what about a hedge instead? You could plant a row of suitable shrubs just inside your side of the boundary with a slight gap to accommodate the drain. Then you have marked the boundary and he can do whatever he likes about his fence.

Seeingadistance · 18/12/2024 22:11

It sounds as if you and your former neighbours made a very good job of together upgrading your front gardens with driveways and paths. I notice that in all your posts you only once, I think, mention that the reason for the fence was that your neighbours had a dog which they wanted to keep safe and secure while in the front garden. So really, this has nothing at all to do with boundaries - it was simply a way of making sure their dog didn't stray. Maybe emphasising that aspect over the boundary aspect would make it clearer that this has nothing to do with you.

And I do agree with others that the best way forward meantime could be simply to do nothing, while continuing to be pleasant to your new neighbours when you do see them.

OhcantthInkofaname · 18/12/2024 22:43

Just keep telling him it's not your fence - it's his fence. You didn't build it!

If he keeps on - get some landscaping boulders and line them up on your side.

SpunkyCritic · 18/12/2024 22:54

Good advice already given here, OP.
Just ignore. He has a fence on his land he doesn't like. He can sort it.