New neighbour wanting 2 foot of garden back

[BORN2BMILD]

I have lived in my house for getting on 40 years. Our wonderful (and sadly now ex) next-door neighbours bought the house on the attached side of our semi-detached house in 2012.

There was a lot of work for them to do, including sorting out the front garden which was in a mess. We had a drive on ours, albeit not in the best of condition, so when the neighbours told us they were getting a driveway installed too (this was about 2014) we asked if we could go in with them and have ours re-done at the same time, using the same contractors.

Our neighbours also had plans to install a footpath from the proposed drive, across the section of grass that would remain, to the their front door & side access. We liked these plans, and asked for the same. Our neighbours organised everything, and we paid for all of the work that took place on our side.

The work was done, and we ended up with one continuous driveway across the two properties, and matching footpaths from the drive to our respective front doors. The dropped kerb runs all the way from my side to theirs (It's the size of 2x double dropped kerb).

Soon after, the neighbours installed a 4ft fence all around the three sides of their grassed area of the front garden, with a gate leading to their new footpath. We did not desire a fence, so did not duplicate this on our side.

However, in the middle of our two properties, up against the house and on the boundary, there is a soakaway drain with a waste pipe from the guttering that runs across the front of the roofs of both our houses. Although the drain is in the middle and on the boundary, there is more of it on our neigbours side than ours.

Because of this, when the neighbours had their fence installed, they went about 20 inches from the boundary on their side, so that all of the drain was on my side of their fence, as doing it the other way so that the drain was in their side meant having their fence over my side of the boundary. In other words, we gained about 20 inches of the grassed area of their front garden.

This was their choice, and for all the years they lived there, life was very good. Sadly, they moved about three months ago.

Today I bumped into the man who has bought the house (it's a family but we've seen very little of them). He was pleasant enough, but mentioned that he's aware that we have part of their garden and that in the new year he plans to see about taking it back. I told him we have absolutely no issue with this what so ever, and that we'd never asked for the fence to be put where it was, so if he wanted to move it, that was up to him.

But then he said it was our responsibility to get this done, at the least pay for it! He said he'd checked the deeds and that the boundary is ours to maintain (this is correct, as we went through all of this 10+ years ago when getting the driveway done) and therefore I would need to meet the cost of the fence being moved to what he calls the "correct" position.

I told him that even though we are responsible on the deeds for the boundary, there is nothing that says we have to have a fence, and nothing that says if one is fitted that I have to maintain it. I pointed out that in an estate of over 100 houses, there are only two with fences round the front gardens, and that having his fence installed was a choice that the previous owners made, not me.

It is further complicated by the fact that the drive is one continuous section, with no distinction between their and ours - ultimately, two cars can park side -by-side on each side (so effectively four cars in a row across two properties) and as our neighours had two cars (same as we do) we only ever parked on our respective sides, leaving plenty of room between our car and theirs. It's never been a problem.

My question is this - what (if anything) do I need to do now? And what action can my new neigbour take over a fence which has nothing to do with me at all?

Diagram attached - the red section is the 3-sided fence which I speak of, and the yellow rectangle between the two houses is the drain that sits mostly over their side of the boundary. The thick purple line is the boundary, and the thick orange line is the end of the drive where it meets the public footpath.

TIA.

Good point. You could accidentally chuck a load of wildflower seeds over the patch.

Is there even meant to be a fence in the front garden? Lots of estates like this have covenants where the fronts are meant to be left open as it’s nicer aesthetically. It would seem that very few others have done this so it makes me wonder. Maybe point that out to him 😂

Excellent diagram, OP.

His fence, on his land. If he wants to move it, not your problem and you've told him that.

I don't think he has a fence post leg to stand on.

I wouldn't offer this CF of a neighbour 10 inches your garden if I were you. I know you said you would have for the previous lovely neighbour but I always feel like if someone is unpleasant I dig my heels in much more than I would with a nicer person. Sorry you have such a crummy new neighbour, hopefully he will settle down to being decent.

You have options, one is do nothing, fence is on his land, you aren't disputing ownership. 2. Tell him just to take down the fence, no requirement to have one, 3. As the land has been enclosed for 12 years approach land registry to adjust.

Personally I'd do nothing myself but say he's free to remove or move the fence if he wants and say you are willing to sign to say you have no claim over the land which is probably worrying him

I agree with pp. I'd tell him the last neighbours chose to put a fence up well with their property. If he wants to take it down that's entirely up to him but you won't be putting a boundary fence up.

I can tell you now that he's going to be one of those demanding fuckers and if you give an inch he'll demand a mile

*Isatis · Today 05:39

Trespassing on his land to mow grass without permission really isn't a good idea. Plus, leaving it unmown will demonstrate that OP is respecting the boundary.

I see no harm in the OP continuing to act as she always has, unless her attached neighbour indicates he wants her to stop. You don’t give postal workers, couriers, leaflet droppers and passing tradesmen looking for business explicit permission to come onto your property but if they annoy you, you tell them not to come back. I see this situation in the same way.

I think some of you are being unnecessarily rigid and over-eager to follow perceived rules. Maybe you think this is the way to avoid a neighbour dispute. I don’t see a dispute, just some mild murmurings. However, your advice will certainly give the impression of an all-out neighbour dispute.

Do you legal advice with your house insurance?

Anyway he's being ridiculous.

mitogoshigg · Today 07:55

As the land has been enclosed for 12 years approach land registry to adjust.

It’s been 10 years and while she’s had possession for that time, has it been adverse possession? Maybe adverse possession isn’t required, I don’t know, I’m not legally trained.

Property lawyer here.

You don't have to have a fence - there wasn't one previously, there's nothing saying you have to provide a fence and no one else has fenced their front gardens.

He will be spooked because his lawyer will have warned that there is a risk of adverse possession, ie that you could claim ownership of the strip. In reality, that would be almost impossible for you to do (the law changed in recent years to make it harder to claim) and the risk is negligible.

He could ask you to stop mowing the lawn because that is also involving trespass on his land.

Do not install a fence that is not on the boundary, eg eats into your garden - it'll raise the same issues if you ever sell.

Just continue to be polite and don't agree to pay for anything!

The previous neighbour erected a fence on their land. The Op has maintained the boundary. It’s not where the fence is. Nothing has happened to the boundary. If the neighbour wants to alter his fence he can but he pays. The op has no obligation to erect a fence.

I think they mean that it's not a boundary fence (as its not at the boundary). It is a fence inside next door's property which they, not you, are responsible for.

Tell him to either take the fence down or move it. The fence is on his land, it's not on the boundary.

His perspective is wrong here. He is assuming that any land outside the fence has been deemed “yours” but its still his, up to the true centre boundary. There is nothing to fix or change. If he wants to plant, dig, or lie down all day in the 20 inches outside his fence up to the purple boundary then he can do that.

Nothing for you to do. If he wants to move the fence that is entirely on his own garden he can do.

You're responsible for maintaining the boundary. The fence is not on the boundary. The fence is on his property and is for him to maintain or remove.

I'd ask him what he envisions going forward. You could always agree so stones being placed along the boundary at shared cost to avoid any boundary disputes in the future. Sounds like a ball ache but honestly neighbour disputes can end up being extremely costly and stressful and have a way of escalating way beyond the realms of sensibility. Try to compromise to nip it in the bud now.

Do you have legal cover with your house insurance? I would be calling them for advice if so.

Do this if you do anything. If you wanted to be childish you could string pirate bunting all along the wire, with skulls and crossbones on it.

You just need to keep repeating that you know exactly where the boundary is, you have always known exactly where the boundary is, what goes on over his side of the boundary is his business.
Boundaries do not have to be denoted by fences or indeed anything physical. Some people might like a fence, some a wall, some a few plant pots, or a prickly hedge or a pretty hedge. Even a line of ugly scary garden gnomes. Or nothing at all. One of my boundaries has nothing at all so that I can preserve a view.
What I might do though is - if the drain has a concrete rim to it, just put some sort of mark on that rim to show the boundary. Maybe a line of paint. Not to provoke a further conversation, don't even mention it, or do it while they are out but it gives you something to point at, and shows where you will stop mowing the grass next year.

Great diagram! If you end up having to pay for the fence, invoice him for cutting his 20 inches of grass all this time.

You can’t really put up a few posts and put a wire across (which was my first thought) as you might damage the drain - hence why the fence wasn’t erected on the boundary in the first place.

Id be inclined to divert the drain over to the 20” section and put up a fence. Let him deal with the drain!

Another solicitor here. He seems to be in a huff because the fence has "landlocked" him out of 2 feet of his property. Fence is on his land and nothing to do with you so he can just remove it and restore his access, simples. Keep telling him that.

As you have noted there is nothing in the deeds that obliged you to erect/maintain a fence or other structure along the boundary. Your obligation to maintain the boundary line will be just be to keep it clear, tidy and unencroached. It sounds like it isn't possible to install a structure along the boundary anyway, as that would obstruct the shared drain and therefore might actually put you in breach of your obligation to maintain the boundary!

He's a silly twat.

Id be inclined to divert the drain over to the 20” section and put up a fence.

Unnecessary expense and I don't think the OP can just divert a shared drain like that. Sounds like that'd be a pointless and costly escalation.

I'd think I'd ignore it for now, OP. Hopefully the neighbour will realise he's shot his bolt and it's failed. If he asks a lawyer it's hard to see them telling him he's got any case for you paying to move his dog fence! Probably a good idea to put in a couple of discreet boundary markers.

Then (if nothing more is said or done) next spring ask him if he wants you to continue maintaining his strip of lawn as you did in the past as a courtesy to your former neighbours.

I agree with stopping mowing the grass, especially given the neighbour's attitude. We used to have a shared patch of grass between our and our neighbour's house and we each only cut up to our boundary. We have a shared driveway and only clear snow up to our boundary. I wouldn't mind doing more, but I don't want to make a rod for my own back.

When you boil it down to the basics, he has a fence on his property, within his own boundary, that he doesn't want. The actual boundary doesn't have a fence on it, so you have been maintaining the boundary, as you are required to do so.

If, as you say, there is no requirement to have a fence, then I agree there's nothing you need to do. If he wants to take the fence down, that's on his property, that the previous owners of his house put up, that's up to him.

If he wants a fence on the boundary between your properties, that's fine too, but that's his choice, not yours, so he pays for it.

He's trying to pull a fast one IMO.

Going forward you need to get your head around this is not your land - you did not buy it and you do not own it and you will not own it unless he sells it to you. What's been happening is you have kindly been mowing it for your neighbour in the sake of keeping the whole area tidy. He should really be paying you! I would have a chat with him and say this is not a boundary fence - it was put up by the previous neighbour to keep their dog in. I've been mowing it for ease to keep the whole area tidy - do you want me to keep mowing it or shall I stop as its your land and you want to sort it.

I said all through it's not my land and that I recognise it as such. I only mow it as it is literally part of the same lawn that is mine. I have never put anything on it, or planted it etc. All I do when cutting my lawn is to go the 20 inches further so that my mower touches their fence.