Is it normal for builders to ask for money up front?

[Canalboat]

Had a quote from a builder but he wants 40% up front to buy the materials because he says he’s been let down. Is this usual? It’s been ages since I had anything done.

last big job (50k ish) payment schedule was
10% at confirming job
40% on start day
40% half way through
10% after completion

This is an interesting thread as only a few days ago I've accepted a quote from a kitchen fitter I found via Trust a Trader. Here are their invoicing terms:

Invoicing and Payment
3.1. The client accepts the final quote given here and the price of goods and services will be inclusive of VAT. On acceptance of a quote 40% of the balance shall be immediately due for settlement before work commences.
3.2. On completion of works an invoice shall be raised to settle the remaining balance, which shall be due within 12 days of the invoice date unless otherwise stated.
3.3. If the invoice is not settled within 30 days of the invoice date, xxxxxx installations reserves the right to begin legal proceedings to recover the outstanding fees with the client liable for xxxxxx installation's legal fees for doing so.
3.4. These terms and conditions will represent a contract between xxxxx installations and client according to the laws of England and Wales.

It seemed reasonable to me at the time.

I was going to pay by bank transfer but after reading some of the posts on here will no longer do so.

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Thanks all for replying. This is a mixed bag of responses. He has quite a lot of good reviews online. I’ve just spoken to him and he said he’ll take the deposit once the materials have arrived on the first day so that seems more reasonable? It’s a garden landscape so it’s decking and timber to be bought.

@AlwaysCloudyUK Trust a Trader recommended the worst removals service we've ever had (we've moved a lot over the years) and they had stellar reviews (suspect they were written by friends 🙄). Awful experience and we were considering legal action afterwards.

Would never rely on Trust a Trader again!

I have noticed more up front payments when we've needed work in last couple of years.
I get it. The cost of materials has risen and there's been more issues with clients wriggling on full payment after job completion.

But we've also been stung by someone doing building work. We now tend to go on recommendations by friends.

That does seem reasonable - as long as you have the goods, you'll be able to use them.

We had our roof done recently. Roofer explained before work, he usually asked clients to pay for materials direct. He explained they'd start work and probably the following morning we'd be asked to transfer a certain sum to merchants before they delivered that day. There were no problems, but we asked around and heard nothing but good reviews, know he'd worked in area for years and generally got the local church contracts.

It's normal. A deposit confirms the contract. Depending on the size of the building company, he might not have the 30 day credit for materials, and may need to pay on order or collection of goods. He might have been stung by someone changing their mind a couple of days or so before work starts, or had another company undercut, leaving him with a gap in his diary and materials no longer needed. My dh charges 20% usually, but foe customers we consider a high risk of non payment he will ask for 50% to at least cover labour and part of materials.

Agree with others in the trade, trade accounts still have to be paid regardless of the terms. Sadly we were stung badly by a dodgy customer in the past so now (and for many years) we would not consider a job without a reasonable payment upfront to cover materials/waste removal etc which are all ordered prior to or at the start of the job. We have 5 star reviews, booked well ahead with word of mouth recommendations and do not pay to be on trust a trader type websites. A customer who does not agree to pay these costs is well avoided and a builder working without upfront payment is no guarantee that the work completed will be to a high standard. If you blanket disregard all trades asking for reasonable costs upfront, you could be missing out on excellent trades. We are not all cowboys 🙄

We've been asked to buy materials up front direct by a plumber, who preferred to contain his turnover so he didn't have to register for VAT. Fine.

We've been asked to pay a percentage upfront by a builder to supposedly cover the cost of materials. He kept letting us down repeatedly on a start date, had provided no contract paperwork, and we lost trust in him, so we cancelled him. Some materials had been delivered months before, and we decided to keep them for the job, but he initially tried to charge us 20% on top of the price he paid for them. He only admitted when I smelled a rat and asked him for his own receipt.

I'd only pay more than 25% up front if I know from actual personal experience that the tradesperson was trustworthy, and always get everything in writing. Ideally credit card.

Exactly, no one is expecting trades to bank roll materials but expecting direct payment of almost half of the price of the whole job before starting is a lot. Having almost 3 years continuous work done in building, trades and landscaping every job bar windows we have done we have bought the materials the trades ask for in advance or paid a deposit of more like 25% for smaller jobs. Also had a float for petty cash items. We get each trade in separately and manage that. Recommendations are always good, I have never used check a trade, also seeing people's actual work, our best carpentry wasn't recommended but had a shop I visited. I appreciate builders have trouble with some customers and cannot be expected to fund builds but paying direct for the materials has always worked for us. Keeping the labour charge separate insulated the builder from materials inflation and made ordering out problem but meant we were less exposed financially.

My mam paid upfront once and the guy did 2 days work and then stopped showing up. Turned out he was in prison (not even jail on remand but in PRISON serving a sentence so he knew in advance he was on bail when taking the job).

The job never got finished and my mam did not get a refund either.

Yes, perfectly normal to pay a bit upfront and then in stages as the work is completed before a final payment to tie everything up once snags etc have been completed.

I’d agree to bypass Trust a Trader etc. The best local guys will come recommended by word of mouth as they won’t need to advertise, won’t be able to start for some time due to being booked up and will immediately decline if they sense anything a bit off or that you don’t have money to spend or are trying to haggle on payment. Unfortunately it’s one of those trades who can pick and choose the jobs they take on if they are any cop and the traders are sussing you out as much as you are doing the same to them.

Yes, I've done it myself as a draughtsman. Been stung by a company refusing to pay to the tune of £3k. I've worked in and around construction for over 20 years and know many companies that have worked in good faith and then had clients refuse to pay, both domestic and commercial.
As a small builder, especially a sole trader working for private clients, you don't necessarily have the turnover to finance someone's job and then get paid after. Must be even worse now as materials are so much more expensive than they were pre-Covid/cost of living/Ukraine/you name it. My DH was the sort who wouldn't take on more work than he could handle at any one time, which meant you didn't have to wait months for him to be available; that, apparently, is also 'wrong' as it means he's no good. Spoiler - he's actually very, very good.

We've just had a £10k patio done and the chap asked for 2.5k upfront and rest on completion which I thought was reasonable.

Our extension was 70k ish and they asked for 10k upfront, the rest was staged payments throughout the job.

Sounds like 25% is more common but a lot of arrangments still really wooly on whether that is actually for materials or an advance on labour. Also the chance that if your builder doesn't turn up or do what they said they would the chance of getting any of your money back is very slim. Its about fair risk balancing between both parties.

I could have written this! Exactly the same situation. My DH has had sleepless nights over clients not paying, then his workers chasing for payment. He has a small business so all clients pay up front a deposit, though all work usually based on recommendations from friends/former clients so there is trust there initially which helps.