Is it normal for builders to ask for money up front?

[Canalboat]

Had a quote from a builder but he wants 40% up front to buy the materials because he says he’s been let down. Is this usual? It’s been ages since I had anything done.

every time I've paid upfront to a small builder I've been scammed. Unless it's a large firm with an office and a formal contract then don't pay upfront. Phone around until you find someone who will work with payment via installments after they start.

normal to have a 3 part payment agreement. (before, at start, after finishing)

wrt materials - we tend to pay builder's trade account invoice directly for materials.

This. Buy the materials yourself from the merchant so you are only paying for labour. You are horribly exposed if you hand over 40% of the price before any work is done. He'll be off on other jobs and you'll always be last. If he doesn't like it, ditch him. He will be a nightmare come what may.

I’ve done a lot of work, on my house and also on my business studio. I’ve always bought the materials myself. I do that because my parents always bought the materials themselves for all the extension work they did. It’s very normal to pay directly for your own materials.

I think that the people who ask for a list of materials to review and/or buy themselves are probably the biggest pains in the arse to work for.

I can just imagine the quibbling about why x brick was used when y brick is 10% cheaper. Or people thinking they're being clever by buying cheaper versions of the materials list provided without considering the impact this would have on the quality of the finish. It's got hassle written all over it.

Builders and other tradesmen are sought after. I'd be telling people who asked for this to f right off tbh. And if I was hired to complete a job with material costs I'd absolutely be asking for a decent deposit.

You don’t actually get a list and go out shopping for them yourself. You get separate prices; the quote for the job and the list of what’s been ordered from the builder’s merchant, and you pay them directly. You don’t go around ordering the stuff but you pay it directly, so you own the materials and aren’t handing over money to a builder who may or may not pay for the materials.

Hmmm...I did pay my plumber half for 'materials' then other half on completion of job.
If you're concerned you could look up the cost of the parts, or ask them to show you the prices of their supplier. I think if they are a small firm then paying some up front isn't unusual. But it is a risk.

Yes it is normal to ask the some money up front - especially if they are smaller firms. But 20% and ask for receipts.
It also normal for there to be a payment schedule.

40% is a lot up front. On the projects our family of builders do, it’s only really 20% ish that are on materials.

how much £ is the job and how long will it go on for.

we tend to ask £1 deposit which ties in the contract, then £x end of first day which usually covers a lot of materials then stages after that.

It's easier for you to check out if a builder is reliable (reviews, references, past work) then it is vice versa.
So technically the builder should be the one needing the extra "insurance" guarantee.
We had work done about 10 years ago and the standard contract from the architect was all "valuation this" and "retention that"but ultimately the builder asks for 10k and you give it to them if you want them to start work.

For a rebuild & refurb, I had a team put together by the chap I hired to run the job. I knew they weren't 'a firm' and my contract was with the one chap, who couldn't realistically be expected to cover all eventualities himself. I went with them to the Builder Centre for the first load of materials and ordered bricks, tiles, etc as instructed, on my account. We had a schedule of payments for the work done, which went fine.

They were a raggle-taggle crew, but bloody brilliant. The various inspectors who had to come round declared themselves awestruck by the quality! I do hope our crew got plenty more work (and nice clients) from that.

We tend to be more careful who we work for than not.

We don’t quote at least half of the jobs that come up because as you say, there aren’t many ways of checking legitimacy of a customer, will we be paid? etc. whereas, we have loads of reviews and can provide references etc. so from our perspective as a company that does what it what says on the tin competently and on price the risk is very skewed against us.

It’s not quite at the point where the customer actually has to be recommended to us, but it’s close to that. We’re very fussy where we put it.. lol..

@Farting, I was fortunate to have The World's Best Carpenter on a different refurb. He never advertised, wasn't even listed in any directories. You had to be given his number by a friend, then he'd quiz you about them to make sure it was a genuine referral.

I'll be stuffed next time I need a great tradesperson - I haven't got any friends doing renovations any more!

No not normal

Our landscape gardener asked for 40% upfront for materials. I didn't really like it but felt silly saying no .

My DH is a retired bathroom installer, he always asked for 50% day of commencement, he stated it on his estimates so people knew. In his 40 odd years, only a couple of people queried it and before the days of internet banking he would often be given a cheque which took a few days to clear anyway. I would say 80% of his clients were 65+ and happy just to get a good tradesperson in. It was younger clients who would query it, but DH said I’ve committed 10-15 days to doing this job, so if they cancelled for any reason, he wouldn’t have any work or money.

My DP never asks for money upfront.
Depending on the price/ timeframe we usually do staged payment. Ie £10k to be paid on external shell completion, stage 1.

We never add anything on to materials. We sell they'll then at retail price, however we benefit from a discount from most suppliers which earns us a small amount. But you need to take into account the time it take to order/collect/load up/ paperwork on the materials we are collecting for you.

Staged payments for our builder to do groundworks and up to DPC. We are buying all materials and will reclaim VAT as it is a self build.

It's not a good idea. What you could offer to do though is pay for the materials directly to the builders merchant. The big ones like Travis Perkins, Jewson etc will let you set up an account yourself and will give you discount. Takes 10 minutes in store.

We're in the middle of a complete house renovation. Our builders are absolutely amazing and are doing a great job. They have never asked for money upfront. They work on a rolling monthly basis. We worked out how much the renovation would be approximately, with the caveat that there could be unforeseen problems that we'd need to talk about. They gave us a rough monthly estimate and we pay monthly.

They were telling me last week about a local rogue builder who scammed some elderly people out of £40k by pulling the 'you need to pay upfront scam'. They said to never pay upfront. If a builder doesn't have a trade account in place with the major local stores, don't go with them because they're not established enough. They said anything could happen that could throw them off if they're operating on a cash in hand basis.

Also, another tip they gave was if the builder is available straight away then be wary. Most really good builders have a long list of jobs they're currently working on so you may need to wait to get on their schedule. We waited for over a year to start but so glad we did because our guys were 100% worth waiting for. Also, you can go and visit them on jobs they are currently working on to see the standard of work they deliver.

Please don't make a costly mistake by handing over a big payment upfront.

I'm having a lot of garden work done, patio etc. and have paid half up front. I have to say it's the first time I've ever done this paid some money up front but I don't have any reason to suspect that the company is going to shaft me.

Hopefully not anyway ...

In my experience building work is 50% materials cost and 50% labour. So asking for 40% isn’t far off.

I’ve been with my builder to pay for the supplies and not been happy with the selection available.
When I said “Oh, I’ll just go to a different wholesaler and get what I really want” the look of panic on my (skilled and trusted) builder’s face made me realize he was playing catch-up with the supplier and my payment was probably covering some previous customer’s tardiness.

I would not use any tradesperson who asked for cash up front.

Sure sign of a cowboy IMO.

I think 40% is a lot and would be suspicious. For builders saying its a pain to deal with people's requests on materials if they are unreasonable yes but builders can also be unreliable and careless with people's belongings and money. OP isn't saying they want to choose materials just unsure about handing over so much cash to someone who hasn't done anything yet. Why can't they call an order into the builders merchants and you call up and pay?