Is it normal for builders to ask for money up front?

[Canalboat]

Had a quote from a builder but he wants 40% up front to buy the materials because he says he’s been let down. Is this usual? It’s been ages since I had anything done.

Don’t pay upfront- there have been so many horror stories after doing that.,

Normal - but you mustn’t do it.

in the event that he has no credit with builders merchants (bad sign) you could order and buy some of your own materials and just pay him daily for labour

No, he should have a trade account with suppliers to get materials. 40% seems a lot, although it will depend on the total for the project.

For small projects lasting only a week or two we've paid about a third halfway through, a third once mostly complete and a third once all snagging completed.

Our most recent project - over five months - we paid nothing up front, we were invoiced after a fortnight for work done up until then and any materials bought, then had a week to pay each invoice. So paid nothing until three weeks in, then fortnightly. 10% was kept back until we were happy the final snagging list had been dealt with.

No it's not normal to ask for anything like that amount. He's not going to buy all the materials upfront in advance and often builders have a trade account where there is some support of return arrangement. Have you looked him up online? You can check his business accounts if it's a limited company. Have you tried looking at reviews and recommendations and googling the company/ his name? I have paid a small deposit on a previous loft conversion and am about to do the same but that's after a ton of research and because it's usual practice locally. By small I mean a few hundred pounds out of tens of thousands.

Tell him to split his quote. Ask for the list of materials he needs and then a quote for the work. Tell him you’ll buy the materials directly. And then make sure to sort out a payment schedule that is based on work completed and not time based. You’ll pay in instalments as they complete each part of the work.

I hate all this don't pay up front advice. Yes, most builders will have trade accounts but that doesn't stop clients refusing to pay and leaving the builder out of pocket. You only think about it from one side.
My DH was a sole trader doing building work. Note I said was. One of the reasons he gave up doing it was the ongoing hassle of dealing with people who think they know better.

Don’t almost all of us do our work first then invoice for payment? Whether graphic designers or electricians? Completely normal to work first then get paid.

Then why not ask the client to buy the materials directly?
I used to work in my (different but similar) job 1/3 upfront which paid for my materials, 1/3 staged part way through so I was sure I at least could pay anyone I employed, and the last 1/3 when the job was done which was my pay, and the clients insurance because they had that 'over' me in case they were unhappy with the job when it was done.

It’s fine to pay upfront if he accepts card payments and your bank is part of the chargeback scheme.

Or if you part-pay by credit card you’re covered if the total cost does not exceed £30k.

If he asks for cash it’s a flat out no, and bank transfer is also a no, as it’s as good as paying cash. You’ll have absolutely no comeback if he doesn’t turn up, materials don’t materialise, he does a shit job, doesn’t finish the work or he goes bankrupt/into liquidation.

Yes I think it’s normal. We’ve just had a load of work done. Was £3k. One the first day he wanted half and the other half on the last day. Fine.

For GD jobs (which I have done) I'd agree. Electricians who work for us do the same ( though copper is pricey these days).
But it is a bit different if you have very high materials/other costs vs labour. On those jobs, where I might be paying out for timber, workshop hire, very posh paints, huge lengths of fabric, I generally either worked by the hour (paid weekly) and the client picked up the invoices for materials, or I had 1/3 of a fee upfront, then the other thirds in stages.
Depends on the type of job.
Having said that, no tradesman working here has asked for stage payments except on one building job where they had to order a conservatory frame and glass, which seemed fair enough to me, as it was all bespoke. Sometimes I have offered stage payments but they have declined as it's 'too complicated'.🙂Other times I have still been chasing them for an invoice weeks after the job was done, as they like doing the work but hate the paperwork. (I like to pay the day I get an invoice- sometimes people have given me the bill on the lat day and found they'd been paid before they got home. 😊)

We've just had our drive and paths replaced. 8ks worth of work (quite a long drive and four paths round the house) the builder we chose wasn't the cheapest quote but he asked for £50 up front and the rest at the end of the contract.

They did a marvellous job and the price was exactly what was quoted.

I'd be wary of those who wanted (needed?) Up front costs.

Understand, but many people have been stung after paying up front!

Totally normal to pay a 20% or so down payment, I paid on the day the materials were delivered. For larger projects stage payments are normal too (eg after foundations are dug, once walls are up, after roof is finished and free first fix then rest on completion

I know several friends within the building trade, and a landscape gardener, all work for themselves, non of them ask for money upfront.

It's not unusual, no.lots of companies will ask for a part payment upfront. My husband is a builder he is a hard-working, honest man who does great quality work. The amount of outstanding payments he has to chase for is crazy and has very nearly put him out of business a few times over the years. Not all trades people are dishonest cowboys that mumsnet cast them as.

My DP is a builder and requests 30% upfront. He has never had trouble getting it from clients or had anyone refuse to pay. Honestly if he did he would probably decline the job.

Far more important is have you got a contract?

That might include staged payments, but it will also spell out exactly what the builder has to do and both of you should sign it and keep a copy.

This.

It's normal for materials so they're not out of pocket, but they're taking the piss if it's much more.

It's normal. My husband gave up being a brilliant joiner for a long-time because customers don't pay. If you have to pay out thousands for materials, then your customer decides to hold out on payment, you can be screwed. And you will be amazed at who holds out. Building work is expensive, customers often over spend, or end up spending their money on the finishing touches etc.
It was a huge financial strain on our family.
So, if you're expecting a workman to be good to you, be sure to be a customer too. You can order the materials if you prefer. If its a big job, offer to pay installments, with a large chunk at the end. Good trades people are hard to come by.

My MiL had this for a relatively small job, having decking built.
She did pay for materials but asked them for a receipt, and they did come and do the rest of the work.

For a 175k build i had to pay 25k upfront.
The rest was tapered, and given my builder was a goodun I think that's fine yardstick

I’m paying approx 15% up which I’m happy to do as it’s someone I’ve used before, recommended frequently and both I and everyone who has used him is very happy for the work. It’s also sub 1k and window replacements so need buying up front.

iirc previous job was a similar up front payment on a much bigger job but was more ‘building’ type work so lower material costs up front.

last time I did a big extension, I think we put c£5k deposit and then had staged payments at particular points, but that was a 4 month build and over £100k