Buyers doesn't understand that they can't just demand everything they want

[WanderingThree]

As the title says.

My property is older and not perfect and priced accordingly. Sizable discount 5% was still given during initial negotiations. All OK.

They had survey done which they say showed problems as of course it would in an old house. Main ones were the electrics don't meet current regs (not ancient/ ugly/unsafe); roof requires further investigation (no leak, granted looks old)

Buyers have immediately asked for a further reduction of £25k to cover cost of a new roof and a full rewire!

EA is being no help at all and suggesting I may have to agree if I want the sale to go ahead. No, just no.

How do I deal with this? Is the original discount just forgotten and they can expect more? The electrics may need an upgrade and roof may not be perfect but surely there demands are totally unreasonable. Arent they? Losing the plot & need your guidance
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@IwishLifeWasDull

The house isn't electrically unsafe though is it?

That's my point. OP doesn't know. The surveyor's report is the only thing all parties have that suggests it isn't safe. The only upgrade on the surveyor's report is a qualified electrician having a look, hence why I said OP should get one if they want to keep their buyer but not drop £25k.

If the EA says that you should reduce the price, isn’t that a sign that they think the buyers are being reasonable/they don’t think you’ll get a better offer?

No, but I’m hopeful. This was only a week ago that it went back on the market and Wednesday-Saturday we’ve had 5 viewings 🤞

electrics don't meet current regs

When were the electrics last worked on? If since about 2005 (possibly a little earlier?), then it might simply be that the main box thing, what we used to call the fuse box, needs to be replaced by a newer spec box with RCDs. It didn't mean the electrics are intrinsically unsafe. Replacing our box cost £400ish several years ago.

roof requires further investigation

May simply mean that the surveyor did not look closely at it, just from ground level, and did not see anything that either worried or reassured him.

No, it means they want their commission and it makes no difference to them if you lose 25k off the sale. They still get paid and will want to hurry the survey up.

id just tell them that the roof is fine, the electrics are fine and the house was priced appropriately for the area and if they don’t want it you’ll remarket it.

And yes the “roof requires further investigation “ is standard surveyor guff for covering their arse because they generally don’t get on a ladder and inspect the roof. So they cover themselves by saying if you want to know the roof condition get a roofer inspection. buyers sound like they’ve interpreted it as “needs a new roof”.

They should get independent quotes for the work- not just go off the survey.

But negotiating after survey is quite normal- accepting less than asking doesn’t change that, unless when you accepted the offer you did on the condition they couldn’t do this.

so if the house was up for 300k
they already got a 15k reduction initially
and now they want a further 25k
so 40k off
I would tell them to fuck off

yes, it depends on how big the £25k is, but judging by OP's post, I think their house is on sale for about that much.

Re-wiring is expensive though - for a three bedder it can be about £10,000. Then a new roof is about £10,000 (depending on size). I don't think the buyers are being unreasonable. OP already said the roof looks old, so as a buyer, you can see why they're worried.

You can tell buyers to F off, but in a buyers market, it's really buyers pulling out.

Your responses have been really helpful encouraging me to look at this situation from different angles. My current emotional state is very much driven by stress and the knowledge that I may not easily or quickly get a replacement buyer.

Yet I'm not of a mind to say yes to what I consider unreasonable and unevidenced demands. Disappointed by my EA in all this and generally feeling very unsupported so this thread has been brilliant.

Going to ponder for a while but am veering towards asking for evidence/ costings and then, because I don't want to lose my buyer, ptobably offer a deduction but it won't and can't be anywhere near 25k.

Yet I'm not of a mind to say yes to what I consider unreasonable and unevidenced demands....veering towards asking for evidence/ costings
But it makes no difference if you see costings or not. They are asking (not demanding) to pay less because they want to. Same as when they made you an offer in the first place. If you don't want to accept it don't. You don't need to justify it any more than they do.

The only thing you need to decide is if you want to risk losing them as a buyer or not. What's reasonable is immaterial.

DappledThings I don't want to risk losing my buyers by saying No. But my finances don't allow me to offer a further 25k reduction now, and I don't wantvto, in the knowledge that they may come back for further reductions closer to exchange.

Feel as though it's damage limitation I need to work towards - not taking action that will lose my buyers by totally dismissing their request. Okay they may say 'Fine we'll have it anyway', but seems unlikely.

Negotiating a much smaller r3duction than they want seems like a way forward. Or am I missing a better way?

Negotiating is absolutely the way, just don't over complicate it asking for evidence. If the most you are prepared to take off is £10k just say that. Don't explain why or get them to explain what they think is reasonable, just make a counter offer and keep it simple.

@WanderingThree
Has your EA got the copy of the survey? Ime when buyer asks for a discount because of the survey’s result they have to provide the copy of this survey as an evidence.
If they don’t want to provide the copy it means the wording of the survey doesn’t support their claim.

Apologies if this was discussed already on the thread.

pizzaHeart I don't know if the EA has a copy of the survey. I wasn't aware the buyer needed to provide the survey as evidence if wanting a discount. This makes sense and seems obvious now you've pointed it out. Is there some written rules that dictates this?

Hi OP, I don't think you should ask for "evidence". They could equally say they have their surveyor's report and that is enough for them (to pull out), even if it's not enough for you. They've already spent money asking for a professional opinion. If you want to refute the reduction, it is for you to get the evidence.

If I were you though, I would meet them in the middle and then firmly and politely tell them anymore reductions is beyond your financial limit (but are you releasing equity or trying to move to another house?)

Personally, I think they won't reduce again if they're satisfied with the reduction now. They are just responding to the surveyor's report which is why they paid for it - to see what might be wrong and right with the house. They have every right to request a reduction based on it.

It is silly to expect buyers to pay for a survey and not renegotiate if something comes up, otherwise we'd all just be taking the vendor's word for it.

They have expenses too, and might not be able to afford a new roof and electrics which you're passing down to them. Irrespective of your own financial issues, they have theirs too.

Otherwise, you should all just pull out. In a buyers market, they will find another property pretty soon, but you might be waiting months for a good buyer.

Good luck.

Tell your EA that if the sale falls through, you’re re-listing with a different agency since they don’t seem to appreciate that you are their client and not the buyer. The agent should be helping you here.

I wasn't aware the buyer needed to provide the survey as evidence if wanting a discount.
They don't. This is nonsense.

p.s. the buyer might not be able to show you the survey. Usually, they sign an agreement with the surveyor that it can't be passed around, and personally you should not expect them to send you the report they independently paid for. You need to get your own survey if you want to know the condition of your house. The surveyor is for the buye, not you. They might send you a screenshot of a part of it, but again, don't have expectations for the report at all.

If you know the roof is old and the electric requiring hasn't been done for 30 years, then you need to reduce. My advice is: Don't complicate things

I had the electrics and plumbing checked here to buying it and whilst the electrics were not current they were safe and serviceable. Your electrics are not going to be current but that doesn't mean a full rewire.

My DF used to do full rewires years ago and the electrics were ancient without any modernisation so unsafe.

My previous house in the survey said it needed a new roof however, when my roofer had a look what it needed was £100 worth of slate tiles as some had come off! When I came to sell it it had no issues at all.

I think surveys are just very cautious.

I'd go back and tell them they need quotes and you will consider them.

Make a reasonable counter offer that you can live with, and be prepared for them to walk away if they feel it is not reasonable. They have spent money on the survey so that will be a big decision. However it may be they genuinely feel the house in its current condition is not worth the current price and you will have to accept that.

If the original price reflected the condition of the house, I would say no.

The electrics in my house, built 1987, probably don't meet current regs. They don't need to. The regs change regularly and no one is re-wiring their house.

Make a reasonable counter offer that you can live with, and be prepared for them to walk away if they feel it is not reasonable.
This. Faffing about asking for quotes at this point will just delay everything and make it a more protracted negotiation. Just name a number and be firm.

This. Take the emotion out of it and remember what you're doing. You're at the pointy end of negotiating a sale. They are not making unreasonable demands, try to reframe it. They are trying to pay as little as possible for something you are trying to sell for as much as possible and vice versa. It's not personal, this is just how it is.

You can either say a flat no, take it or leave it and be prepared for the sale to fall through.

You can say yes, and agree to their latest offer.

You can try to find a middle ground. Which is what negotiation is. Don't take it personally, you'll likely have the same or worse from the next buyers if you do pull the plug, it's part of the process. Hold your nerve and don't take offence, it's business. You're not trying to make friends, they don't owe you anything at this point. You're just trying to get the sale over the line in a mutually agreeable way.