Buyers doesn't understand that they can't just demand everything they want

[WanderingThree]

As the title says.

My property is older and not perfect and priced accordingly. Sizable discount 5% was still given during initial negotiations. All OK.

They had survey done which they say showed problems as of course it would in an old house. Main ones were the electrics don't meet current regs (not ancient/ ugly/unsafe); roof requires further investigation (no leak, granted looks old)

Buyers have immediately asked for a further reduction of £25k to cover cost of a new roof and a full rewire!

EA is being no help at all and suggesting I may have to agree if I want the sale to go ahead. No, just no.

How do I deal with this? Is the original discount just forgotten and they can expect more? The electrics may need an upgrade and roof may not be perfect but surely there demands are totally unreasonable. Arent they? Losing the plot & need your guidance
.

Did you have any other interest? Could you go back to any other prospective buyers that might be interested with the 5% off you have now agreed?

I would be annoyed by the new roof and re-wire, when all they were told was the electrics don't meet current regs, they don't need to they just need to meet the regs when it was last done and to be safe (which apparently they are) and they suggest further checks on the roof probably just because the surveyor didn't go up in the attic to check anything and it's an old house so might have some problems. Offer £5,000 off for further checks and maybe a new fuse box and no further reductions!

Unless of course you are desperate to sell, you have little prospect of another buyer and you can afford £25k off, or £25k is a drop in the ocean of the selling price.

I had my 3 bed house rewired for £2.5k in expensive area of UK.

Roof costs I can't help you with.

EA just wants the sale to go through so they get their commission, so don’t pay too much attention to what they say.

Survey should have a valuation on it.

Where you want to allow a discount is where stuff is found that is unexpected.
I think suggest they get a roof survey. They don’t get a discount on the survey saying it’s not sure. Electrics, have they said anything actually needs doing?

For the most part, sellers think buyerz got a bargain and buyers think they overpaid.

The buyers might be looking at the purchase and thinking they can not afford the necessary repairs at the price they are paying or they might see it as a part of the bargaining process.

How does you house compare to sold prices for similar properties in the area?

Old fuse box... I might consider replacing that... should be in the region of a few hundred pounds.

No one plans to rewire without planning on total redecoration. .. if they are planning that.. they can afford the price they are paying. You could get an independent electrical survey and see what that says... look for safety risks, urgent work and compare that to works required to bring the installations up to current standards... only safety and urgent works really need to be considered.

A quick google tells me that the average roof has a life of somewhere between 25 and 70 years.. in my experience.. they last much longer than that but need regular maintenance to replace missing / broken / moved tiles, reseat ridge tiles, repair / replace valleys, refit gutters, repairs to fascia / soffits, if the slates are laid on a membrane and this fails or the slats / beams are rotting.. then this would be a much larger concern. Most roofs will need maintenance and ultimate replacement at some point, but there are many many houses with roofs that are much older than 25 or even 70 years old.

I don't really see that houses with new roofs are worth significantly more than houses with old roofs... ie.. you wouldn't recover your investment in the short term if you put on a new roof and neither would they. .. so it's a bit of a gamble.

What could be determined from the viewing / visual inspection? The approximate age of the roof, the fact that it is in reasonable condition with no obvious leakage / damp. The age of the fuse box and the approximate age of the electrical fittings. The house is valued and offer accepted based on the age and condition of the house. If you can stand by your valuation, you can ask that your estate agent go back to them with that information and also offer to have someone look at the roof and electrical installations and see if there are any urgent repairs required.

If you think you can get another buyer... refuse the reduction. If you think they will walk away... how much is it worth to you to keep them as a buyer to meet your long term goal of moving house?

When buying an older house it is very normal for a whole host of things to come up. As a buyer you need to weigh up what needs to be done urgently and what can wait. I've asked for money off before, usually for things the mortgage company would withhold for like damp. You could consider going back with a counter offer, or get a roofer to give advice on the longevity of the roof, I think if its got 10 years left in it then its not something I'd be giving money off for. Getting a new fuse box fitted and tested isn't hugely expensive and doesn't always require requiring so you could get that done yourself. As others have said, they can ask and you can say no. They might decide to go ahead anyway.

Hi OP, If i'm being honest, I think you are being unreasonable.

Allow me to explain:

Regardless of the age of the property, the state of the electrics and roof condition are down to the vendor. This is not about the bones of the house - this is literally electrics and a literal shelter from weather and water ingress. It all comes down to when you had the house rewired yourself and the roof replaced yourself.

For example, if you moved into a newly rewired house or had it rewired after you moved in, then you've enjoyed that upgrade for many years. The same with the roof replacement.

But roofs deteriorate and electrics become unsafe.

Vendors cannot expect buyers to take on a house that needs rewiring and a new roof at their expense while all these years you enjoyed an electrically safe house and good roof.

It is down to the vendor when to rewire it and when to provide a good (new) roof before putting it on the market. You chose not to, so that must be reflected in the price. I am not sure why this might be difficult to understand, OP? You cannot expect buyers to be okay with you passing on a house with a poor roof and unsafe electrics.

Sorry, but I think your attitude is of the greedy (and possibly stressed) nature and you should try to see it from the buyer's perspective.

@WanderingThree If I looked around a house and made an offer, I'd presume everything would be in relative working order.

If a survey came back to say there was an issue with electrics and the roof, it lowers the value of the house because now it costs the offer value plus the money I have to spend on it, and I could find a house for the same price with no similar issues.

Therefore I'd absolutely expect money off to cover these expenses.

The majority of buyers will have a survey carry out, and you'll face the same issues again with the next offer.

• surveyors are not electricians
• a survey saying that further investigations to the roof are required generally means that their surveyor hasn't even looked at it.

The electrical regs changed relatively significantly in 2019 so chances are, even if the property was new just before then, recommendations would come up - but they're just recommendations, not dangerous and/or immediate needs.

I would tell them that you'll negotiate on price on the back of a proper EICR and/or roof survey with quantified issues.

But there is no suggestion that the electrics or roof actually need anything doing to them

• the roof might need a proper investigation means the survey didn't go up to look and is covering their backside , and the electrics predate the latest standards is also nothing - not that they we're dangerous or must be changed

At the end of the day - it's your choice , accept the reduction, negotiate or walk away - that's how it works

They are trying their luck and maybe that's how much they think it's worth. You are free to say no and hold out for them to agree or wait for another buyer. Its a stressful process but they aren't doing anything wrong.

Perhaps on a new or recently built house you might assume that but I have always lived in and bought/ older houses and I would never assume everything would be fine and not need some work at some point. You go round with a builder on your second viewing or at least have a very good poke around so you know what you’re offering on.

The OP said she had priced the property with the age and fact it isn’t ‘perfect’ in mind. If she’d priced at the same level as a house in perfect condition then a discount would be fair enough. We don’t even know what the survey said about them but surveys ALWAYS bring up this kind of thing on older houses in my experience.

SOrry @IwishLifeWasDull that's not right!

You can't say, regardless of the age of the property, a surveyor will ALWAYS have red flags on a host of issues with anything over a 100 years old, always have , always will.

Saying roof needs looking at and electrics haven't got Landlord level recent checks DOES NOT WARRANT 25K off the price.

This is buyer GREED to shave off as much money as possible from a home buyers report. OR its naivety. The home is already priced accordingly and the OP offered a further reduction for the sales memo.

As @OneDayIWillLearn says, if it was priced accordingly, no further reduction is justified. You take the property as is.

If the buyer can find comparables where other properties in the area in a similiar condition are much cheaper, they have a case, otherwise OP tells them to do one.

You need to forget the original discount, if it was worth asking it would have sold for asking. It didn’t. So it was worth what you agreed pre survey, you didn’t them a favour. Or a dicount you agreed a price.

however now the survey is in they don’t think it’s worth this. You can do multiple things.

refuse , lose the sale, hope the next buyer doesn’t have this same issue,

negotiate, try to show it’s not needing those things in the mid term ie next 30 years.

negotiate, agree a compromise to shift it.

There is no evidence that there is actually any problem with the roof or electrics is there ?

If the survey had said " holes in roof" or "urgent repairs needed " or even " repairs likely needed " then maybe because most people can't see the roof when they view

Similar with electrics " not meeting current standards" is irrelevant " - that would be true of any house built more than 4 or 5 years ago but no one in thier right mind would say that all houses over 5 years old need their electrics replaced !

It depends totally on your local market. Buyers can demand whatever the market allows them to based on supply and demand. We bought our first property in 2010 and managed to get some beautiful pieces of antique furniture thrown in and a good bit off for an issue with the bathroom ceiling (nothing serious) because they wanted a quick sale and we didn’t have much competition. My sister bought two years ago and they didn’t even bother to clean a huge amount of rubbish from the garden and it was overpriced tbh but people were queuing round the block to buy it so no room for negotiation.

This is total nonsense. You price for rhe condition.

I work with part exchanges and get this all the time. I advise the property is sold as seen and the price agreed reflects that. If they don't like it then that's on them.

People get far too emotionally invested in house sales and purchases. The buyers think there may be additional costs ahead so have now offered less. Whether the seller thinks the reduction is consistent with what the potential costs might be doesn't matter really. Thats the figure they've come up with and it's up to the seller whether they choose to accept the reduction, negotiate, or say no.

It's just a transaction.

@JJathome it's not "total nonsense". The condition is reported by the surveyor. If the vendor believes the house is in good condition, then they need to prove it - it's the vendors "opinion" versus the qualified surveyor. I know who I would believe.

If the vendor has zero receipts and evidence for the roof condition and electrical safety, then the buyers have every right to reduce. But as other people have said, it's up to the vendor if they want to accept or negotiate it. Personally though, the OP should know it's a buyer's market right now and will be for a long time, so they will just have the same situation with another buyer. It's just reality I'm afraid.

Btw, You price for the condition... AND the market. Currently, in this market sales are falling though very often. The OP, as a vendor, needs to weigh up their time, stress and own finances going into this (e.g. solicitor fees) while the market is still falling more and more and the season changes to Summer with less buyers on the market.

If I had a serious buyer, I would negotiate with them.

You take the property as is.

The electrics are not safe and the roof is not in good condition. OP has admitted the roof looks "old" ie coming to its end. OP also admits electrics/rewiring haven't been done for a long time. That is the "take the property as is" - the buyer is reducing their offer based on "as is" using a professional surveyor report. You, the OP and others saying "surveyors are just covering their backs" is quite outstanding to me. This is a professional report and a buyer isn't going to take a vendors "word for it" versus a professional report (???).

In a buyers market, it's up to the vendor to prove the condition of both electrics and roof are fine. If OP believe both are fine, they can just hire someone to do the check and produce the evidence for this for the buyer. It's actually a simple solution. OP why don't you just do this, rather than expect buyers to take your word for it?

Personally, I think OP should negotiate the price.

The electrical regs changed relatively significantly in 2019

Why do you think that is? Maybe because of a little thing called "safety"?

An EICR rates risks as C1, 2, or 3. A lot of things would now be picked up as C3 (improvement recommended) which wouldn't previously have been included. Doesn't mean the house needs rewiring or is unsafe. Just means it's not in line with current regs.

We've had a full rewire done on our own home and I'm the responsible person for a number of other installations. A rewire is generally recommended when the property is fundamentally unsafe, or the cost of remediating individual C1 and C2 issues outweighs the cost of a full rewire. It's not on the back of an unqualified person (which a surveyor is) having a feeling 🙄

Personally, I couldn't sell an electrically unsafe house to someone. What if a kid was going in there. This is why I think vendors need to at least check electrical, gas safety before they put a house on market. Otherwise, what is happening here is that people are asking buyers to take a vendors "word for it" and what if they literally do and then there something awful happens to someone.

Why is this so hard to understand? No one here would buy a blender that had even a smidge of an electrical safety issue. Why are people expected to buy a house that might be unsafe especially for their family. It's not rocket science.

OP should just hire an electrician to check. It's like £200, which is nothing compared to what they are selling the house for.

Thanks for your input. It's helpful. How long does a rewire last for? I think I read 35 years, but I might be wrong. Thanks!

Thing is - if you do reduce then I bet you they’ll go for a reduction on exchange day as well.

throw them back