New house has major structural issue

[INeedCharcoalPants]

I posted recently about issues in the house we moved into on 19th January and we've now discovered yet another problem, but a pretty serious one.

I noticed the upstairs floor was bowed near a wall, big gap under the skirting board which looked concerning. The joiner who looked today has said that at some point a wall was removed downstairs (which we never realised had actually been done) and no support above of any kind was put in. He's coming back tomorrow to put timber supports in the kitchen to shore it up.

I spoke to the neighbour to get an idea of what this part of the house previously looked like and he told me that the work was done well over a decade ago, by the owner who was there before our own seller.

Where do we go from here? I'm calling the solicitor first thing for advice but we're devastated at this latest setback. I feel like just packing a bag and leaving this place with the first property auction I can find

Update - I called surveyor who stated they knew the kitchen wall had been knocked through and recommended that our solicitor chase up the relevant paperwork on this. I can't see any mention of this on the home report however. Not sure if it's the Solicitors negligence or the surveyor trying to weasel out but I have a feeling we may get nowhere with this

Well, if they knew, it should have been in the report, thats what they are paid for.

IMHO don’t waste your time and money going to solicitors or surveyor, if you don’t know one speak to your neighbours and get a competent builder, if required will support the floor with a steel beam. Not a big or that expensive job.

Don't beat yourself up over the lack of survey. The stuff we have found wouldn't have been picked up on a survey.

To everyone who had similar issues, how did you get through it? I feel a bit of a nervous wreck and constantly on edge when I'm in the house. I'm also avoiding going upstairs as much as I can

@INeedCharcoalPants , try not to worry. Yes, the surveyor should have made a note about requiring paperwork for the wall removal downstairs, and I'm surprised that your solicitor did not ask you about it. But either way, what would probably have happened is that the seller would have paid for an indemnity policy (covering any follow up action from Building Control, in case the removal was done without approval). You would still be in the same position in terms of having to fix it. If you had known about it, would it have deterred you from buying? Chances are it wouldn't, if you really loved the house.

Meanwhile, write down a plan of action to get everything sorted, and take some deep breaths. You will get through this.

Would I have still bought it if we knew? Likely not. We liked the house but didn't love it. It ticked a lot of boxes which was the main thing but we went to top of budget as we lost out on six houses before this one, either being outbid or losing out to FTBs. We were pretty much prepared to go into rented if we didn't get this house.

I'm so sorry @INeedCharcoalPants , sounds like you've had a rough time. I suspect that if everything else had gone smoothly, and you loved the house, you would not be quite so anxious about this particular issue. It has just been one thing after another, so you are understandably overwhelmed.

Once you have done as much as you can in the short term to arrange for the necessary works, I would try spending some time thinking about how you can make this a house that you really like and are happy in. I'd put money on you being much happier and settled in 6-12 months' time.

Best of luck

Thanks @ClematisBlue49 , I've had a lot of people tell me it'll get better and I'll love the place eventually, I hope they're right. It's not helped that there has been never-ending issues since day 1, the majority of them water-related which is my worst fear. I'd say I have fairly robust MH but this has been a massive test of that!

OP our last house had a major structural defect - it's called mica and it's in the blocks in a lot of houses in Donegal and they're now finding it all over the west coast of Ireland and in much older houses than they first thought. It was due to lax building regulations for decades and lots of people's homes are crumbling from it. It makes the blocks the strength of Weetabix in high amounts.

We'd had two surveys done when we bought it and both of them missed the signs. One categorically said there were no signs of mica. We had issues with cracking after we completed so we knew it probably did have mica after all.

When we came to sell, we tested and it came back with too much mica. The buyer went €38k under asking so we sold it at a €46k loss including the €8k geochemical survey required, but at least we got rid of the place. So many are just sitting at very low prices unsold because no one can really do much with the very bad ones. I loved that house, it would have been my forever home, and I became deeply depressed for months when we had to leave and move into a shit rental that's 1/4 of the size, but the mica shadow was always hanging over us while we were there.

Sometimes it's not that easy to get over it when your house doesn't feel safe and secure, and structural defects are a big one. Take time to process it and if you're still not happy a few months after it's fixed, look at the possibility of selling. Frustratingly, there's never any comeback on the people who are supposed to be held to professional and legal standards who don't do the work you pay them for.

We've had to start again with a smaller deposit and are only househunting again now, 18 months later. It doesn't get better that it happened to us, but we have mostly come to terms with it, now.

I hope everything turns around for you. 💐

@SisterMichaelsHabit that's terrible, so there's all these affected houses and nobody can do anything about it? I dont blame you for waiting so long to househunt again, I think I'd be the same too

@SisterMichaelsHabit the mica thing is an utter scandal. You have my heartfelt sympathy and I hope you find your forever home soon.

It’s odd that he admitted verbally that he saw it as it’s not in the report.

How would he have communicated with your solicitor outwith the report?

Don’t beat yourself up about not having a full structural survey because structural engineers often don’t look that closely either! one recently said something was fine for me and then the builder went up and said it’s all got to come off it’s dangerous. The builder was correct

You will need a structural engineer to calculate what size steel beam you will need and you will need to go through building control

Once everything has been sorted and a few months have passed you’ll start to feel a home. I hate my house at the minute due to various work taking place and upending everything

I have been there, down to the significant water damage and a wall removed without support. It was emotionally and mentally draining living with the disruption and the hideous cost, but we fixed the issues, including a steel beam put in and we lived there for 7 very happy years until we outgrew the house and sold for a healthy profit.

We even bought another house needing arguably even more serious work (starting with removing part of the roof and upstairs ceilings!).

I found it helped to hand responsibility and worry over to the experts. I took advice from them and them only and didn't give in to unfounded worries.

@INeedCharcoalPants A builder we once used said "there usually nothing that cannot be fixed with money and steel " So I do understand how newly you are into the house this is upsetting. But as others have said get a proper structural engineer. Yes it will cost but if you can fix it then I think you will look back and think maybe it could have been worse.

Structural engineer visited yesterday and took notes for the calculations, he's going to draft up plans this weekend to be passed to the builder. He was very reassuring and I feel a bit better now.

He believes the Surveyor is at fault and said he would write up something for me that could be given to the Surveyor to support this. After reading into it a bit more I doubt we'll get anywhere with this though, it seems very difficult to get Surveyors to admit fault.

The OP has a,ready said that it wasn't the sellers that did it. The occupant before did so there really is not likely to be anything to pursue.

House buildings cover is for subsidence and accidental damage, not negligent building work by a previous owner

Now you say this, I've been looking through the paperwork the solicitor gave me and I've come across an affidavit signed by my vendor where she states that to the best of her knowledge, there were no alterations made to the property. However when i called the surveyor to talk to him about his report, he commented that the vendor had mentioned to him that the kitchen had been extended. I said to my solicitor about this but she wasn't concerned

So @INeedCharcoalPants most people who have bought older houses (and new builds to be fair) will have had one disaster or another over the years. It always feels like the end of the world at the time but they often come good in the end. We have had full structural surveys done on numerous properties over the years and they have failed to pick up damp, drainage, subsidence issues - despite the initial outlay. Nothing is foolproof.

You are doing all the right things and once the supports are in, upstairs will be safe and sound. And any building work - although costly - will make it right as rain. As a PP said use this time to think through whether there are any other adjustments you need to make.

Also contact your insurance company. As this was unknown to you you may be able to claim this back.

Edited to add: I suspect you will get nowhere with the surveryor/solicitor route. It will be a case of she said/he said and I would focus on getting the work sorted if I were you. Having had a very legitimate legal issue with building work in the past it took months to sort and a lot of heartache.

@Thingamebobwotsit I have so much going on aside from this and the thought of pursuing someone for liability stresses me out, but it's as much a moral/sense of justice angle here I guess. Maybe once the dust has literally settled and I'm in a better place mentally, we can re-evaluate what to do.

A sagging floor isn’t a major structural issue (listed property owner 🤣) it will take a good Chippy a couple of days to resolve, add more support and raise the level. If you’ve only just realised it’s not that bad. Does it have much bounce?

A floor that's sagging as a result of a structural wall being removed is a major structural issue.

I also have a saggy-floored old house, but that's not the same thing the OP is dealing with!

What's the cause of your sagging floors? Asking for a friend...