It's a Buyer's Market: experiences in 2023/2024 ?

[wheretolivehelp]

Just wondering what other buyer's experiences have been like on this side of 2023? Any horror stories? Issues with sellers? Guzumping? Guzundering? Problems with EA?

There's a few threads with Seller's experiences on MN (many saying their buyer can't afford the mortgage for their (overpriced?) property and so re marketing them).

What good and bad experiences have you had as a buyer?

Hope this thread will be useful to the buyers of 2023 and 2024!

Thanks so much for sharing this. That's really awful for those sellers in this situation. Kinda makes me mad that our country has come to this and this is what some people have to do to get care :(
At the same time, I feel as a younger person and because my generation have had it very difficult including low wages, poor pensions and having to save for years and years for a deposit (and therefore wasted thousands on rent), I'm not going to bring emotion into it. I'm not here to plug that hole in society. It needs fixing by the government and for people to stop using houses as commodities.

I would pass on these houses, as a personal preference.

What other options do you have? Will you move out of area, close by?

I'm sorry you are in this position. It's not fair. You sound like a reasonable person and seller too. I feel confident that things will change within a year. We are entering a possible stagflation period now, the UK economy is really poor. I hate to say it, but this works for buyers just trying to make a house a home. Everyone else seems to just want to rip others off and get rich off the back of people's hard work and generational disadvantages.

This explains A LOT. I wonder if this is far more common these days?

I've just seen a house reduced by 2%. Am I right in thinking (from a pp on another thread) that this is the minimum reduction you have to make on Rightmove to get it back in people's inboxes?

Because otherwise, reducing from 300 to 294k is really odd. And doesn't make the house in the slightest bit more enticing.

Agree. That would explain a lot.

Good question, but I think I read this one an old thread once, I can't remember. 2% is really nothing agreed! and I think the seller is really not doing themselves a favour. It's actually quite a cheap trick and when you find out about it, just makes you sort of laugh at it lol

I know right! I think when I come across these houses again (guaranteed!) I'm going to ask the EA about it directly. It's kind of sad, but also not something I would throw my money at. Just sounds like an impossible situation and a bad investment.

And that’s just what is visible.
Bit more than a coat of magnolia.

I thought the same. It's a lovely house in design but so much needs to be investigated. All that wood trim, coloured bathroom suite and ceiling tiles (are they polystyrene, that's a fire hazard?) screams that the wiring and plumbing won't have been touched for many decades, and that just adds up to a HUGE amount of work needing done. It's not just a matter of personal taste, which is subjective, but making the house not just safe, but good for many more years before things like windows and heating systems need to be replaced due to wear and tear and passage of time.

Anyone who buys that house will have to gut it without question, because the electrics and plumbing just will not be up to scratch, and there may well be very many more problems hidden under the floors, behind the wallpaper, in the attic. Surveys rarely pick this stuff up because surveyors' hands are tied rather; they aren't allowed to lift carpets to inspect floors for example, it's all based on what they can see and touch without damage.

The other house looks great; it's still got period features that fit in well and look in good condition, the layout is perfectly usable and works better in my opinion. The hall is a fabulous size that allows the bedroom above to be a decent space, it appears to be up to date with utilities and both the house and garden look well maintained. Plus it has a good driveway for private parking, which the other house does not.

Surveys rarely pick this stuff up because surveyors' hands are tied rather; they aren't allowed to lift carpets to inspect floors for example, it's all based on what they can see and touch without damage.

Thanks for sharing. What you said here about surveyors has always worried me . Do you know what buyers could look out for? I'm still learning what to look out for - signs and symptoms of (costly) damage .

Do you know what buyers could look out for? I'm still learning what to look out for - signs and symptoms of (costly) damage

So am I, @wheretolivehelp - it's really tricky isn't it! Things like cracks could be superficial settlement cracks and nothing to worry about, or they could be indicative of more serious problems like subsidence. At least surveyors can tell you about this.

There's not a lot that you can do during viewing to be honest - I doubt vendors would allow you to lift carpets either. But there's nothing wrong with trying things out though, like close the front door behind you, turn on the kitchen taps to see the water pressure, turning lights on, asking to use the loo, have a quick look up in the loft (I don't know if it's usual but our vendors allowed this), have a look at the distribution board if the vendor allows you to see if it looks recent. Ask when things like utilities were updated or replaced. Check for any windows that are blown and misty inside, generally look for signs that the house has been well maintained.

Most people want their property to look good for viewings and do any minor repairs (my vendors didn't, there was a curtain pole hanging off the wall that simply needed a screw tightening, and wallpaper that they'd tried to stick back up with sticky tape!! ) Surface mounted electrical sockets and trunking for electric cable suggest that the house will most likely need a rewire, and if they haven't done that, what else haven't they done?

This sounds highly unlikely. Unless a house is repossessed, the bank has no control over what the buyer does, and if it is repossessed, then any bank would sell as a quickly as possible since holding a stock of houses is dead capital for them. But hey, agents talk a lot of crap so no surprise here. In all likeness, over priced probate are the result of relatives not knowing the markets and seduced by agents with enthusiast valuation especially in situation with several siblings.

I agree re relatives not knowing the value.

Regarding equity release, well, in 2022 homeowners over the age of 60 took out 28% more equity than in 2021, to the tune of 5.2 billion. The average amount of equity released was 133k.

It's not true to say the banks have no control if you have released equity. That amount plus compound interest is repayable when you move house, die or go into care.

Copy paste from link:

Releasing just £65,000 through a lifetime mortgage at a standard 6.4% interest rate will equate to almost £137,000 total debt after just 12 years. This means the value of your home left to beneficiaries can be severely reduced.

Of course, I don't have any stats past those years, so idk what pensioners have taken out in the past that could cause financial hardships now. As well as supporting meagre pensions, apparently it's pretty common to do equity release to get your own kids on the housing ladder.

So, the banks do have control.

moneynerd.co.uk/disadvantages-equity-release/

Hi thanks for sharing this! I’m going to look into this because I really really want to know the psychology behind a seller with a dilapidated house thinking it’s ok to sell at the same (already overpriced) houses that have been done up lol. Sellers are…. Really trying everything. But this is clearly a market that’s spiralling downwards and has become a buyer’s market.

Agree EA talk a lot of shit. We’ve witnessed that ourselves lol. They are getting very desperate about their commissions too.

Also this was in the news:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/18/uk-house-sellers-cutting-asking-price-rightmove

Exactly! What else haven't they done?

The unsafe factor of properties today is really worrying… gas leaks and electric issues are my biggest worries and why I will have these looked at separately, not just a building surveyor.

And I really think there’s a trust issue with sellers right now. If a buyer is facing overpriced properties then they naturally want to see their monies worth… but when it’s a shit house and you spot sellotape to prop up wallpaper, of course you laugh at the EA and get that price DOWN. Of course you do!!

But, sellers are still a little behind in “getting it”. The market has sunk. So I’m still waiting a bit until they behave and the money I’m spending on due diligence and to make sure the property is safe for my family is not wasted. I’d rather go in knowing the sellers understand what I’m offering is a fair price and there is no bitching on their side. <<<< this is why I think a lot of guzundering is happening - buyers believe they are not getting the house at a fair price.

That’s the key to making houses 1) affordable and 2) actually reflect their worth.

Get the prices down, people. Don’t get yourselves into negative equity because of a seller’s delusions.

@wheretolivehelp Is this your first house purchase / are you a first time buyer? You come across as quite anti- vendor / have a bit of a “us vs them” mentality when in reality a lot of people will be both buyer and seller at the same time. Yes the market has changed and it’s a buyers market, I agree, but all vendors aren’t all inherently out to screw people over. I think once you’ve bought/sold a few times you become a bit more open minded to the process.

Hi , I’m a FTB but i’ve been heavily involved in all my siblings purchases and actually sold my parents house for them (as they don’t speak great English) and helped them make decisions by translating, incolved solicitor, negotiated and it was all great with the buyer. They even came round 4 times and even before exchange as my mum insisted (she is a very nice woman and wanted the new family to be happy. They were :) ) Parents did what they wanted to do, but i did the entire process with them, more because they needed me. Im a ftb because i’ve travelled for work (often to different continents). Thanks for asking :)

Unfortunately, sellers are a huge problem in today’s market.

Example: at 6% interest, for a normal family home in South England is about £550k, at 30 years terms with even 20% deposit, you are paying a staggering £2600 each month.

Imagine paying £2600 per month for a crap house. Which most are. Or image someone who saved 50% deposit which is many years of their lives to get to that point… for a craphole house. There are better things to invest in, and renting can be cheaper compared to the strain of a house and responsibilities that come with it.

I might not own or have sold a house directly under my own name, but I have experience of what value is. And the houses on the market are not worth their over inflated prices.

Conclusion: Sellers need to drop their prices :)

My parents have taught me a lot about value and not letting people rip you off or take advantage of you. They also taught us not to do that to others. We strongly believe in karma.

I hope that helps :)

A tip for people who are fed up with overpriced houses. There aren't very many of them around, but some properties for sale are part exchanged with house builders. These are by far the most realistically priced properties I can find on the market without putting a ton of effort into it. If you see a property listed with two or three agents, sometimes that's because it's a builders part exchange, but the EA's failed to put that in the advert. The builder just wants to house sold, and quickly, to get it over with.

I put 'part exchange' into Rightmove for a county, with the following results:

Asking 200, Zoopla (median, always median) 212
Asking 280, Zoopla 278
Asking 280, Zoopla 292
Asking 280, Zoopla 312
Asking 240, Zoopla 377 (originally listed in June for 250k, it looks to be to be an energy money pit, or sometimes Zoopla's just crap if not many houses in the area have been sold lately)

For most of the adverts I found, they put the entire full address including house number/name and postcode in them, so people don't have to faff around trying to figure out which house it is to check the actual value.

MAKE SURE YOU CLICK TO EXCLUDE NEW BUILDS!

I hope this helps someone.

It took me ages to find my home but I really wanted a particular area and a particular type of home. I didn't mind some work.

I expanded my search and I viewed some horrors. Like others have said people wanted a ridiculous price for their homes and there were less available.

I still keep an eye on the market and in my city there are 1000 more properties available than this time last year yet sellers still want an unrealistic amount for their homes.

hey all, just a quick link I thought I'd share after a youtube search (please see below) that discusses how Sellers Are Starting To PANIC! (UK House Price Crash)

He makes some VERY good and interesting points, echoing what a lot of us Buyers are already experiencing:

• multiple price reductions across rightmove (36+% of properties on rightmove are showing at least one price reduction!)
• sellers and EA panicking... mortgages not being given
• silly over priced houses
• impact of high interest rates and BoE will probably continue the hikes (his predictions are quite interesting)
• AND: old ugly '70s properties barely changed since the '70s that are trying to sell at the same price as houses that have been renovated! (which are overpriced too) - this is mentioned multiple times in this thread lol

It's a good watch and interesting data for all you Buyers out there ;)

@wheretolivehelp yeah I have seen this guy before. He made an incorrect point re: modern method of auction and I have since dismissed him.

His stat confirms my own research though. I am looking at within a 5 mile radius of two towns and they both have reductions of between 30-39% of listings as of last week, in all prices between 150k and 400k.

It's because EAs are still overpricing so they get the business.

The person valuing your house has targets of numbers of people to get on the books. They don't actually give a shit if your house sells because as soon as you have signed with them, their job is done, and they will never speak to you again. They get no incentive if your house sells.

So EAs are still massively overvaluing properties to get business.

But vendors are also completely unaware and in denial of how bad things are out there at the moment and still think prices should be the same as whatever Zoopla said they were worth at their peak in May last year.

I don't think vendors will really take the state of the market seriously until we see house price falls of over 10% in the news.

Then they will start shitting bricks and EAs will not be able to get away with overvaluing so much.

I watch a weekly EA show where the guests get really passionate and angry about it. One guy a few weeks ago thinks overvaluing should be a prosecutable offence - that coming from someone who has been in the business for 20 plus years.

Yes absolutely.

This hits the nail on the head for me.

We're trying to upsize from 2 to 3 bed semi, got a buyer for ours but just not prepared to pay the December 2022 asking price thanks!

I’m moving today, should be asleep really. Been a longhaul for us as started this move 2020, was hit by steeply rising market in area we were looking at that year, buyer who couldn’t get mortgage 2021 then 2022 another buyer who couldn’t get mortgage and then finally a smooth sale with a split chain through in 9 weeks at 30k less than highest offer. We weren’t concerned as that’s life and when you are both buying and selling it’s about the gap between properties.

Was also involved in a probate sale that was under offer spring 22 after death of one owner then second owner died just before exchange. Sold this July for 55k under offer with uncle moaning it was cheap and me being hugely relived it was gone as could see where things were going.

Been in temporary accommodation and viewed 16 houses, offered on 3 before current one. Found new house in March, a probate sale and completed mid May. Very dated with a strange layout upstairs, was 2 flats at one point. Suits us as a kind of separate bit for adult DC. Was on the market for 5 weeks at 450k and bought at 405k. Renovation of around 70k. house down the road on at 595k and another at 570k, neither shifting. I don’t care about the value as no intention of moving again .

Our house has’t needed a full rewire, it had a fairly recent consumer and we have had some wiring replaced and light fittings replaced, been guided by electrician. Very 70s house but had been well maintained so haven’t needed many new windows, soffits and fascia’s. Been really lucky and most of the plaster stayed on when stripped wallpaper. Roof had been done and electric garage door. Had a drain problem where water was coming up under floor as bottom fell out of exterior downpipe plus another of the drains was leaking plus blockage cleared. We are experienced renovators and can tell when it’s structurally sound but do still get a survey.

With things as they are if we were FTB’s I would be sitting tight for now amd avoiding properties like the one I have bought unless it is very sensibly priced. Was talking to someone selling who has to re do roof as had spray foam and buyer couldn’t get a mortgage. She has had a 10k asking price from buyer who hasn’t sold and felt 10k under is totally unacceptable as was going on about previous offers. I did say that market turned and for someone who can proceed 10k under (425K) is good in my opinion and she would be wise to accept but I think it fell on deaf ears. End of essay. I need to sleep before removal lorry comes.

The person valuing your house often also is the person who will be doing the viewings/getting the commission @KievLoverTwo

Maybe it varies in different parts of the country or with different EAs but we have moved a lot as you know, and the EA doing the valuation has always been the same guy who we have continued to interact with throughout the process to completion.

Maybe that is a good quesion for people to ask when they get their valuation - will you be the one actively selling this house? Beware of any agents that get their money just for winning the business, you want to choose one who gets their commission on/if you reach completion.

Good Luck with your move today @Seaitoverthere hope it goes smoothly.

Agree with you about your friend, they definitely should have accepted 10k under in this market. There's a small chance they will get lucky and get more money but far more likely they will end up having to accept a bigger reduction.

The weekly EA show I watch with different EA guests is repeatedly saying different (as does Charlie). Idk if it has changed in recent years? But people should definitely ask the question.