It's a Buyer's Market: experiences in 2023/2024 ?

[wheretolivehelp]

Just wondering what other buyer's experiences have been like on this side of 2023? Any horror stories? Issues with sellers? Guzumping? Guzundering? Problems with EA?

There's a few threads with Seller's experiences on MN (many saying their buyer can't afford the mortgage for their (overpriced?) property and so re marketing them).

What good and bad experiences have you had as a buyer?

Hope this thread will be useful to the buyers of 2023 and 2024!

Observations from trying to buy in SE London:-

• Hardly any exciting houses, but when they come on they sell in a week. (We've made strong offers on two and been outbid.)
• Otherwise, slow. Plenty of unexceptional houses £600k-£1m that aren't going to sell at the price. Getting reduced marginally or not at all, and sitting on the market forever.
• An awful lot sticking around the £1m - £2.5m range. Who will buy them?
• Very few properties getting marked as sold on Rightmove, mostly flats that are good value per square foot.
• Estate agents are buying Teslas. How!?

We only offered on one house, it was VERY overpriced and we offered 20% under (top end of our budget). It was new to market so fully expected to be rejected but thought when it doesn't sell down the line they might come back to us.

EA phoned with the rejection and we said that it was fine and we expected it. EA then countered that they would take 5% under asking (WAY over our budget) which they knew and said we could just 'get a mortgage'.

We said 'no thanks we dont want a mortgage and have actually found somewhere else' (true the one we are currently buying). EA then got really rude telling us the house we are buying is a shit hole (even though he didn't know what house) and that you can't buy a house 'that cheap' and how he was an 'expert' and we had to listen to him.

His rude, unprofessional, condasending, 'mansplaining' rant some how didn't make me suddenly want to buy the house he was selling.

Not sure what the tactic of insult the buyer was suppose to achieve.

That house is STILL for sale.

Aaah fair enough! That makes sense.

We bought last year - height of the craziness - complete pit of a house really, but it had a very unique layout that we couldn't find elsewhere. I've got about a gazillion posts up here on the Property board haha - we were looking for a house where there was enough room to build an annexe for DM. We were in a sealed bids position, and luckily just edged it. This is going to be a forever home for us (hopefully) as I've got disabled DC who won't ever live independently - and when my DM is no longer here, the annexe will be useful for them. We paid less than the fully renovated houses, but as a corner plot with extra land and space there was a premium on the property for us. If we end up in negative equity it doesn't really matter as we're not going anywhere and we just wanted the space and opportunities that this house provides. I don't think we will but I'm not even going to look!

Before we found this one we looked at what felt like a million houses 😅 We viewed quite a few decent properties, but just not enough space for what we wanted to do.

Sold DM's last year, I've just sold mine (end of July - just waiting for exchange and completion). We priced very competitively as we wanted to get it sold quickly and to someone with no chain - that was more important to us than a few extra thousand. We had a solid offer within 4 days. We waited a week to have the rest of the viewings but a few of the others wanted second viewings and to bring friends etc so we said stuff it, we'll just take the first offer as they were very keen. Honestly, with two years of selling, building work and now selling mine - with still lots of reno work to do once we get the equity from my house, I just wanted a fast sale with no faffing 😅

We have completely remodelled the downstairs layout of the new house and created the new annexe - it's been overwhelming at times but exciting!

We are in Gloucestershire (but I'm originally from London so know that market too!)

Bloody hell, sorry OP!!!

I'm autistic and take things way too literally sometimes - I'm not brilliant at spotting subtle humour 🤦🏻‍♀️ Apologies.

Ooh, just checked, the over £1m market is completely dead. In our extended search area on Rightmove, last 14 days, min £1m:

Results: 122
Including under offer/sold: 123

and that one sale isn't even a real sale, it was sold a while ago and has been added by the agent. We can probably take our time, then...

no way, totally all me and not communicating on here properly. I'm kind of using my phone to comment, and then get on my laptop for work and start commenting from there. And i also type quite fast and usually incorrectly haha (as my husband says). you are completely right, as it's also my opinion, gazundering and guzumping is not cool. for us, we just want to find the right house, priced fairly, not even looking for one way under our budget, just something that makes price sense and also fair. thank for you sharing your experiences! :)

Must be location
22 on mine over £1 million and 12 sold
Cant see any that have for sale longer than April

I'm literally so so happy for you. I love everything you describe and it's just so amazing to find the forever home. wishing you so much happiness there with your family and hope you create lots of memories. perhaps one day you can post your reno progress with pics. i'd love to see especially as i really wanted to do it myself!

Yeah I’m in Scotland. I remember that post about the bedroom downstairs and I was surprised that so many people thought it weird. I think it’s quite normal for some houses to have a downstairs bedroom. My annoyance are the flats that would have been one bed flats but are now being sold as two bed flats, but they’re not. You only have a teeny galley type kitchen and no dining room anymore as it’s now a ‘living room’

Well Scotland has not increased as much during Covid hence is not as down as per all regional comparison. Plus I think your system sets a bottom price with people encouraged to offer over a fairly low valuation.

The solicitor should be able to find out some info about number of bidders.

Most recent ESPC report said that on average sellers achieved 103.8% of Home Report valuation last month, so it is cooling a bit.

Depends on the property. Some areas rarely see closing dates etc

All of this is completely subjective though.

Because you don't like the things you've listed, doesn't translate to everyone not liking the things you've listed.

I'm not selling. I am help dc try to be FTBs, so sound like am looking at similar properties to you, but - like in all things - people value different things in properties.

We will not buy a riff raff, over priced house with ugly 70s decor and Dirty carpets beibg sold by delusional sellers who have a nerve.

More fool you for not being able to look past decor and carpets.

Hi, yours is a fair comment regarding tastes. True my taste would not be other people’s, that goes for everything really.

But one thing most buyers have in common and will agree on: the housing market is way over priced.

I’m not paying for a dilapidated house that’s over priced. I will of it’s way under the asking price and meets my reno costs. I think that’s fair, don’t you? :)

"More fool you for not being able to look past decor and carpets."

For me it's the fact that dilapidated homes are being marketed and priced as being in turnkey condition when they're not.

I also think it's fair to assume that a house that's tired, run down and in poor repair probably has even more costly issues that aren't immediately apparent.

I'm happy to renovate and have done so. But not if I'm paying the same price that it'll be worth once I've done all the work.

• @moonbeamsokay ”Estate agents are buying Teslas. How!?“

They are lease or pcp, £450 a month.
The sheer amount of new cars on the road is due to the near zero interest rates (which is incidentally why a new Ford Fiesta now retails at 20 grand!!!) and the cheap financing.

This is an interesting thread. Just wanted to make the point that the situation of most of the properties on the market being dross is not specific to 2023.

I've bought and sold houses since the late 80s (6 times now) and helped my daughter buy a 1 bed flat in London in 22. It has always been the case that most of what you view is rubbish (in your opinion) and you wouldn't buy it even with a big reduction in price. I am always shocked by how awful most houses on the market are, and it's not like my own properties are perfect, they aren't.

I agree with PP saying that you see terrible extensions, draughty or overheated conservatories you don't want and dining rooms or studies called "bedrooms." Viewing 1 bed flats in London with my daughter for about 450k, we saw rooms with damp clearly spreading up walls and the smallest kitchen in history since the playmobile one she used to play with as a kid.

So much shit on the market ... it's the reason the rare good ones go fast. When you do finally see one that you like, other Buyers will probably want to jump on it too, so at that point you can't expect that much of a reduction in price or you just won't get it.

I thought a downstairs bedroom was fairly common, especially in more modern houses where they're built so if someone becomes disabled they can live on the ground floor?

We were renting and viewed townhouses that were marketed as four bedrooms. Those were invariably one on the ground floor (often described as a study/bedroom by the EA), along with a kitchen/diner, then a second bedroom on middle floor as well as a living room. And then finally two bedrooms on top floor. It seems to be a really common layout. It's a nightmare for family life if you want younger children on same floor as parents.

Very glad not to be living in a house like that any more as it's so inconvenient but it was hard to find 3 or 4 beds that weren't laid out like that.

‘They are putting their house up for sale at the same price as similar homes but have been done up (but these are still over priced, so a heck no from us too).’

If houses that are similar to houses done up are too expensive (understandable) but houses that are done up are also overpriced. How are you measuring what the price of the house should be? The prices have always been made up. They get made up and pushed to the limit of who will buy them.

about the bedrooms, this was asked a while ago. My BIL was in the same boat with his house. Lots of houses in the area had added a stud wall to the huge main bedroom to make 3 small bedrooms and they were selling for 60k more as three beds. The replies were something along the lines of a three bed, as long as you can get a double bed in bedroom 1, means you can have a nursery or an office and could be the difference between having to move one year after buying or five.

It's a contentious issue on Mumsnet @RidingMyBike about downstairs rooms being labelled as bedrooms. Sometimes it seems appropriate - for example where the room is large enough for a bed and wardrobe and close to a downstairs bathroom.

Sometimes it feels like a complete joke, like the room only being big enough to hold a desk & chair yet calling it a bedroom, or only having a "second bedroom" because they have done away with the living room.

hi, this is a fair comment. i know a couple of people with an extra bedroom space downstairs specifically for a person with a disability and it is valuable to them.

but they also have two reception rooms - a living room and separate dining room - and then a kitchen. For me and probably some others (although can't speak for them), I was referencing the houses that take one of these reception rooms or half of it with a wall in place, and turn it into a downstairs bedroom - this is not a bedroom. this is a reception room converted into a bedroom by the current owners. just because of that, the EA (and seller) is marketing it as an extra bedroom lol.

Yes I agree with that @wheretolivehelp

Buyers aren't stupid. Most are discerning, especially in a Buyers market like this one. They can absolutely tell which rooms are proper bedrooms (which yes, can be downstairs) and which ones are just the EA or owner calling a room a bedroom in a desperate attempt to get more money for it.

Here’s a perfect example of delusion.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/124238957#/?channel=RES_BUY

compared to
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/139840931#/?channel=RES_BUY

I’m guessing you’re trying to buy img east dun/ren? It does seem these areas remain very shielded in regards to price. Some have stayed on the market a while but need a lot done!

If houses that are similar to houses done up are too expensive (understandable) but houses that are done up are also overpriced. How are you measuring what the price of the house should be?

Thanks for sharing. Current interest is 6% for two year fixes. Before it was average 1-2%. Most people can afford that same house that is done up at the latter interest rate. But at 6%? they cannot when the owner has also inflated the price by an extra 20-30% compared to the last 1-2 years. This means the house price is absolutely made up, extortionate and why we are seeing the reductions - prices should reflect the current market which is mainly due to the increased interest rates. this is why a lot of more expensive house, usually detached are not selling very well (reported in the media.). these houses need to come down, else they will be on the market forever, which is what we are seeing now.

Buyers who have not been desperate, know that paying 6% interest makes the house "value" jump up. You are not just paying the value of the house the seller wants, you are paying back a heck load of interest on top of that - that's the actual value of the house. That's easily adding hundreds of thousands to the house. No house right now is worth that extra amount.

This is why cash buyers have been better off (though there are fewer of them) and people with large deposits - good for them too. They can buy the house outright or get a smaller mortgage even at 6% works for them... these are the only people bothering to buy right now (they have an advantage majority if buyers do not). But if you are not one of these people and still somehow buying, then, i'm sorry to alarm and be realistic, they may face financial difficulty in the future and negative equity. hence why getting that price DOWN on the house in the first place is essential for majority of people and their incomes :)

Also, no one should be paying more than 30% on their house mortgage (or up to 40% max) of their total earnings. this is generally a bad investment to many financial experts (i should mention that i am not lol), but i agree with this advice.

This is just how i am doing it, but I am sure some other buyers on here will share their wisdom too. overall, houses are inflated, and at current interest rates, unaffordable to the majority, therefore, they won't sell, unless you got lucky with a cash buyer or someone with an already large deposit. personally, both generally (but the latter in particular) have every right to demand a beautiful home having worked their ass off to save so much

I like both of them for different bit.

I love the character of the first and LOVE its kitchen compared to the second, it has a much more practical layout... yes it needs new carpets and the bedroom redecorated.

I like the wood burners in the second and the gardens look 'nice' but I HATE the layout (completely impractical) and awful soulless modern decor.

Given that layout ALWAYS wins above anything else I would buy the first house over the second in a heart beat.