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It's a Buyer's Market: experiences in 2023/2024 ?

503 replies

wheretolivehelp · 14/09/2023 19:26

Just wondering what other buyer's experiences have been like on this side of 2023? Any horror stories? Issues with sellers? Guzumping? Guzundering? Problems with EA?

There's a few threads with Seller's experiences on MN (many saying their buyer can't afford the mortgage for their (overpriced?) property and so re marketing them).

What good and bad experiences have you had as a buyer?

Hope this thread will be useful to the buyers of 2023 and 2024!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Karmatime · 26/09/2023 09:17

I remember when I sold that there was an engagement team who did the valuation, negotiated the fees and arranged photos etc. I was then assigned a sales person as my first point of contact for viewings and who communicated offers etc. Then once I’d accepted an offer I was passed to a sales progression person who dealt with everything up to completion.
This was a local agent, not a national chain.
The first guy did suggest a higher initial asking price than I decided to go with - this was last autumn post Truss. However I asked them to put it on at a very competitive price as I wanted as quick a sale as possible. I ended up getting over their estimate so I’m not sure they were over-valuing.
However the market has changed since then and it was in a very popular area of just a few streets where historically houses have always sold quickly.

KievLoverTwo · 26/09/2023 09:28

wheretolivehelp · 25/09/2023 21:21

hey all, just a quick link I thought I'd share after a youtube search (please see below) that discusses how Sellers Are Starting To PANIC! (UK House Price Crash)

He makes some VERY good and interesting points, echoing what a lot of us Buyers are already experiencing:

  • multiple price reductions across rightmove (36+% of properties on rightmove are showing at least one price reduction!)
  • sellers and EA panicking... mortgages not being given
  • silly over priced houses
  • impact of high interest rates and BoE will probably continue the hikes (his predictions are quite interesting)
  • AND: old ugly '70s properties barely changed since the '70s that are trying to sell at the same price as houses that have been renovated! (which are overpriced too) - this is mentioned multiple times in this thread lol

It's a good watch and interesting data for all you Buyers out there ;)

Edited

I take back what I said about this guy last night OP. I watched three or four of his videos and he makes a lot of sense, is very well prepared and clear, and is definitely worth watching - at least, for FTBs.

Twiglets1 · 26/09/2023 09:36

I can only speak from my own experience @KievLoverTwo based on several property Sales. I last sold a property 5 years ago but it was the same thing when we sold my Dads flat in 2022 - the person who did the Valuation also did the viewings etc.
I understand people have different experiences just didn’t want it to seem on this thread that the EA doing the valuation is never the person who has to get it sold to get their commission. It clearly is more nuanced than that so yes, Sellers do need to ask the question.

CrashyTime · 26/09/2023 10:25

Mychickchick · 15/09/2023 13:35

Also when interest rates were lower we could have offered the price they want, but now we can’t. So it’s all quite simple really…

Yep, and as that affects tens of thousands of people sellers and EA`s will eventually have to buckle.

CrashyTime · 26/09/2023 10:32

Twiglets1 · 16/09/2023 11:20

That is a good example.

People will say that House 1 has potential which is obviously does and has "lovely bones" as they say - it could be a lovely house for someone after a lot of work.

But the vast majority of Buyers including myself would think Screw that - I'm going for the easy option, the house in great condition for only 10k more.

First one has reduced their asking price by 20k, so they originally thought they could get 10k MORE than the better looking house for some reason? Good location with a great beach etc, but both houses are overpriced IMO.

Mybasilplantispastitsbest · 26/09/2023 11:56

OP you make good points, I wish you luck in your endeavours!

Just be careful when researching market info that you don’t run into confirmation bias (e.g the YouTube guy, who does sound interesting). There could well be further rate rises, however some finance commentators have felt for a while that BoE hasn’t been waiting long enough to let the effects filter through (for example, it’s only as people come off 2/3/5 year fixes that rate rises affect them), also that they will have to slow rises or risks major recession. You may know all this already but there are so many interesting economic factors (low unemployment here, German economy faltering, surprise rise in US unemployment) that it’s worth reading the business pages of a few papers to get balanced opposing views of what might happen.

Re renovation - I really hear you, I have renovated quite a few from minor to nothing-left-but-bare-brick, although you are absolutely right that it is so incredibly expensive to renovate that price must reflect that or location/opportunity offer something exceptional.

I think lots (not all) home shows have so much to answer for - there was one last year (worst house best street?) that was fun but seemed to ignore all the realities of renovation - ie that decoration and furnishings are the last call and a ‘nice to have’. They never seem to have to worry about expensive drains and building control!

In order of what I would be looking for, I made a list after my last renovation and just checked it.

First was roof - I would take a house with internal issues but very sound roof over the other way round as roofing is expensive, stressful and roofers always seem in short supply.

Plumbing, new heating and wiring all go together in my mind now. In that if one’s 30 years old then they’re all likely the same age, also that it’s such a messy job that doing all at the same time is wise.

Means that you have to think about bathrooms at the same time too - kitchens are almost easier as services in the same room. It’s soil stacks and sewage removal that is the big issue and hard to change in U.K. houses!

Plastering. Replacing lath and plaster is a messy dirty business and expensive, but if the walls have been ripped apart for all the above, probably necessary.

Insulation. If you’re replastering you may have to replace with insulated plasterboard to meet buildings regs.

Everything at the end of that like painting can be done bit by bit.

It is SO expensive, stressful, time consuming and life destroying that these days, I’d recommend the already at least partially renovated house!

Good luck!

Freetodowhatiwant · 26/09/2023 13:44

I bought a few months ago, budget was 550k-650k for a 3-4 bedroom semi. Pretty standard price here in SE popular city. I managed to get a 3 bedroom for just under 600k which I think was fairly priced but there were other houses that weren't in such good locations and needed more work or were dark/damp and north facing that were refusing to budget under 625k. I am grateful that a couple of them didn't accept my offers as the house I eventually found was far nicer! Prices have inched down a little. I think the big difference will be mortgage affordability because the 4.5% I got a few months ago that felt painfully high will now be about 5.5% at the best and that would have priced me out of my house purchase and presumably will price a lot of other people out. There is also a lot less coming on the market.

Twiglets1 · 26/09/2023 13:53

CrashyTime · 26/09/2023 10:32

First one has reduced their asking price by 20k, so they originally thought they could get 10k MORE than the better looking house for some reason? Good location with a great beach etc, but both houses are overpriced IMO.

You seem to think every house that is ever discussed on these threads is overpriced.

Of course some of them will be. But saying every house on the market is overpriced will lead to Buyers being stuck because they have to buy somewhere or be stuck renting forever. I’ve a feeling they could be waiting forever if they wait for you to say it’s a good time to buy.

Diyextension · 26/09/2023 14:50

One persons Reno is anothers perfectly fine home . Everyone is different.

plus our house is 3 bedrooms downstairs and one up …… does that make it a one bedroom house ?

wheretolivehelp · 26/09/2023 16:37

Karmatime · 26/09/2023 09:17

I remember when I sold that there was an engagement team who did the valuation, negotiated the fees and arranged photos etc. I was then assigned a sales person as my first point of contact for viewings and who communicated offers etc. Then once I’d accepted an offer I was passed to a sales progression person who dealt with everything up to completion.
This was a local agent, not a national chain.
The first guy did suggest a higher initial asking price than I decided to go with - this was last autumn post Truss. However I asked them to put it on at a very competitive price as I wanted as quick a sale as possible. I ended up getting over their estimate so I’m not sure they were over-valuing.
However the market has changed since then and it was in a very popular area of just a few streets where historically houses have always sold quickly.

This is so good to know, thanks very much for sharing this. I, and am sure other buyers, will consider this when making offers!

OP posts:
wheretolivehelp · 26/09/2023 16:38

Freetodowhatiwant · 26/09/2023 13:44

I bought a few months ago, budget was 550k-650k for a 3-4 bedroom semi. Pretty standard price here in SE popular city. I managed to get a 3 bedroom for just under 600k which I think was fairly priced but there were other houses that weren't in such good locations and needed more work or were dark/damp and north facing that were refusing to budget under 625k. I am grateful that a couple of them didn't accept my offers as the house I eventually found was far nicer! Prices have inched down a little. I think the big difference will be mortgage affordability because the 4.5% I got a few months ago that felt painfully high will now be about 5.5% at the best and that would have priced me out of my house purchase and presumably will price a lot of other people out. There is also a lot less coming on the market.

congrats on your home! are you happy with your choice and purchase? hope it is a place you have many great times and memories!

OP posts:
wheretolivehelp · 26/09/2023 16:43

Mybasilplantispastitsbest · 26/09/2023 11:56

OP you make good points, I wish you luck in your endeavours!

Just be careful when researching market info that you don’t run into confirmation bias (e.g the YouTube guy, who does sound interesting). There could well be further rate rises, however some finance commentators have felt for a while that BoE hasn’t been waiting long enough to let the effects filter through (for example, it’s only as people come off 2/3/5 year fixes that rate rises affect them), also that they will have to slow rises or risks major recession. You may know all this already but there are so many interesting economic factors (low unemployment here, German economy faltering, surprise rise in US unemployment) that it’s worth reading the business pages of a few papers to get balanced opposing views of what might happen.

Re renovation - I really hear you, I have renovated quite a few from minor to nothing-left-but-bare-brick, although you are absolutely right that it is so incredibly expensive to renovate that price must reflect that or location/opportunity offer something exceptional.

I think lots (not all) home shows have so much to answer for - there was one last year (worst house best street?) that was fun but seemed to ignore all the realities of renovation - ie that decoration and furnishings are the last call and a ‘nice to have’. They never seem to have to worry about expensive drains and building control!

In order of what I would be looking for, I made a list after my last renovation and just checked it.

First was roof - I would take a house with internal issues but very sound roof over the other way round as roofing is expensive, stressful and roofers always seem in short supply.

Plumbing, new heating and wiring all go together in my mind now. In that if one’s 30 years old then they’re all likely the same age, also that it’s such a messy job that doing all at the same time is wise.

Means that you have to think about bathrooms at the same time too - kitchens are almost easier as services in the same room. It’s soil stacks and sewage removal that is the big issue and hard to change in U.K. houses!

Plastering. Replacing lath and plaster is a messy dirty business and expensive, but if the walls have been ripped apart for all the above, probably necessary.

Insulation. If you’re replastering you may have to replace with insulated plasterboard to meet buildings regs.

Everything at the end of that like painting can be done bit by bit.

It is SO expensive, stressful, time consuming and life destroying that these days, I’d recommend the already at least partially renovated house!

Good luck!

I completely agree with you, confirmation bias is really important to watch out for. I do think the youtuber makes excellent points, and just like everyone, I guess everyone is making predictions... calculated ones were what I was looking for. i think i agree mostly with the youtuber that the housing market is slipping down down down and a lot of it is because people just can't afford those over inflated house prices, and i think it's making buyer's today more wary of the actual price they're agreeing because it could knock a lot of them into negative equity even in the next few years, that would be a crisis for people looking to re-mortgage who bought an over-priced house since Truss.

Btw, I love your points about reno!! I am keeping this, so thank you very much for sharing it's kind of the insight I was looking for :)

OP posts:
Mychickchick · 26/09/2023 16:44

What are people seeing in their areas with regards to things taking a while to sell? We’ve offered on two properties, both been on about 5 weeks. Very desirable properties in very desirable areas which this time a year or two ago would have been sold off market.

Is that due to the price, or is it just that things are moving slower?

wheretolivehelp · 26/09/2023 16:44

KievLoverTwo · 26/09/2023 09:28

I take back what I said about this guy last night OP. I watched three or four of his videos and he makes a lot of sense, is very well prepared and clear, and is definitely worth watching - at least, for FTBs.

haha yeh, i was binge watching for awhile. i'm not sure the youtubers background but some sound arguments and calculated predictions for the future. i think he represents most (good) buyers (in a good position) who are sitting on the market. "good buyers" can afford to wait this out a bit longer, imo

OP posts:
Tracker1234 · 26/09/2023 18:19

I think the OP is a FTB with little experience of the ups and downs of the housing market and wants to get onto the ladder but on their terms and as cheaply as possible. Wonder if they will feel the same when they come to sell?

I have never rented. Started off many many years ago buying a 1 bed in London (don’t live there now). I have recently
sold both parents houses in London (one two years ago and the other this year). First one was a renovation job and we were trampled in the rush of offers. Very nice part of London (ok - Chiswick).

Second one this year was slower but fab location in London. We priced to sell. Prices were shocking though from what they had paid for the two houses in the 1970’s. It has funded their care.

Tracker1234 · 26/09/2023 18:25

Sometimes one can wait and wait and wait. I have a relative whose son lives with them and his girlfriend for TEN years. Has a large deposit but cannot find anything…

I suspect he is more than comfortable paying £500 per month for him and his girlfriend to live there and has no intention of moving. He now has the ideal excuse to stay put.

wheretolivehelp · 26/09/2023 19:01

This reply has been deleted

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Mummaluma · 26/09/2023 19:32

I feel like we have been exceptionally lucky- we managed to get the house we wanted, at a good price, with just enough work needed to be managable. Hopefully exchanging on next few days.

There has literally been nothing we would even look at since- a lot that is overpriced, not in a good location (for us) or just needs way too much work.

Karmatime · 26/09/2023 19:47

Reading this thread I feel like we should have asked for money off after our survey. There’s nothing major but at least £5K of necessary work on the original sash windows and a few little snags but it’s a 175 year old property so even though it was mentioned in the survey I thought it was par for the course with an old property and I was just so relieved there wasn’t anything else! Too late now, we’re in and I would have hated to lose it for the sake of £5k.

CrashyTime · 27/09/2023 12:46

Twiglets1 · 26/09/2023 13:53

You seem to think every house that is ever discussed on these threads is overpriced.

Of course some of them will be. But saying every house on the market is overpriced will lead to Buyers being stuck because they have to buy somewhere or be stuck renting forever. I’ve a feeling they could be waiting forever if they wait for you to say it’s a good time to buy.

I was referring to the two properties in the links, but obviously I am not alone in thinking property is overpriced....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/london-sees-24-per-cent-drop-in-first-time-buyers-as-high-mortgage-rates-bite/ar-AA1hjOdw#image=1

So much for "supply and demand".

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/london-sees-24-per-cent-drop-in-first-time-buyers-as-high-mortgage-rates-bite/ar-AA1hjOdw#image=1

CrashyTime · 27/09/2023 12:50

Tracker1234 · 26/09/2023 18:25

Sometimes one can wait and wait and wait. I have a relative whose son lives with them and his girlfriend for TEN years. Has a large deposit but cannot find anything…

I suspect he is more than comfortable paying £500 per month for him and his girlfriend to live there and has no intention of moving. He now has the ideal excuse to stay put.

Yes, if they are earning decent money they will be saving a fortune, he obviously knows that wealth is about how much money you keep not the size of your mortgage.

Tracker1234 · 27/09/2023 13:16

But Crashy they wont be making a fortune! My DF brought his house in West London for £5k....we sold it recently for (well I wont say what we sold it for!) He covered his care home costs and had £££ left over.

Twiglets1 · 27/09/2023 13:19

Tracker1234 · 27/09/2023 13:16

But Crashy they wont be making a fortune! My DF brought his house in West London for £5k....we sold it recently for (well I wont say what we sold it for!) He covered his care home costs and had £££ left over.

Crashy is simultaneously angry with people who made loads of money out of property and insistent that no one really makes much money out of property 😂

threefiftysix · 27/09/2023 14:23

Hi everyone. Opinions please.

We offered on a house back in June and we were supposed to complete by August.

We are currently renting and at the bottom of the chain. There are 4 levels in this chain!

We weren't too worried about timings until July when our landlord served us a section 21 - we need to move out in 2 weeks.

The chain has had lots of delays. Our survey came back with a couple of issues and we negotiated on price (2% reduction so not much) but we have been ready to exchange for a while.

We have just been told that the exchange date of next week is unlikely to be met because of some missing documents but that everyone should be ready by end October.

This means that we would have to move all our things into storage and stay in a serviced apartment for a couple of weeks.

In theory, whilst this is annoying with 2 young kids, we can handle it. However what we can't handle is further delays. I'm so confused. Do we sign another rental and walk away from the purchase or take the risk and hope that we can stick to the new deadline of end Oct?

threefiftysix · 27/09/2023 14:23

Oops sorry! I was trying to create a new post 🙈