Another "would you buy this" post - garden flat

[HolyParc]

I enjoy these posts as they help me understand market perception of properties I'd be considering purchasing, hope they are also fun for you :)
For those not familiar with the area, this is a lovely residential area in SW London/Surrey border with great schools, transport, amenities, safe, near a lovely river walk etc. And because of this, very expensive :)

What do you think of this? https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/136368815#/?channel=RES_BUY

I am not sure about being lower ground due to limited light and also, for some reasons it feels less safe? Location is as good as it gets though and I like the flat too.

That tells you about flat sale prices at one point in time. It tells you nothing about the average return on investment.

That tells you about flat sale prices at one point in time. It tells you nothing about the average return on investment.

Looking at what people paid for their flats & then sold them for years later it gives me an idea..

Can you link to your data, showing a lower ROI for London flats?

It's a highly contested area, so I'm sure economists will be excited that you have resolved it so decisively.

London’s always a good investment, it’s the one place in the country that when things go tits up economically tends to hold its value.

I know plenty of areas in SW London where flats sold during lockdown for hardly anything more if they were bought a few yrs prior. And that's before you account for stamp duty & inflation. Time in the market matters & we are in a bit of the unknown with higher interest rates & higher prices so property will likely stagnate here.

I'm not sure what I have said that's so controversial! Clearly I have annoyed flat owners, I had a bloody flat! 😆

There was a blip during Covid when people fled for the countryside, but I think a good London flat is a good investment. One in a good location with a well laid out interior and especially a garden.

I don't know this specific area of Surbiton well enough, but IME of other SW London areas, if it's as good as people say, then I don't think being a basement or the sub-optimal layout will affect future value, as long as it's not stupidly over priced today and it doesn't seem to be.

So I think it's a decent investment, I just wouldn't actually want to live in it myself. When I lived in SW London, I actually traded out the small second bedroom on my wish list for bigger living areas and a garden, but that suited me. It won't suit everyone.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow if you look on that link for that particular road you can see purchase & sold prices

Flat 2

Feb 23 440k
jun 18 440k

1, malvarosa

dec 22 207k
dec 16 342k

flat 3

feb 22 527k
jan 17 503k

first floor flat

jan 22 422k
aug 15 425k

Of course it doesn't tell you the whole story but it certainly doesn't fill me with confidence. My flat went up 200k in 18 months pre Brexit, it's has not see growth like that post Brexit.

You don't have to agree with me, it's just my opinion. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Over 20 years of course there will be changes in growth patterns but the OP hasn't said whether she is happy to stay there for a long time. In this climate I just think a house is less of a risk.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow the standard article I linked referenced Zoopla data which "show that London flats, many of which don’t have any outdoor space, have seen no change in their average prices since 2016. This equates to a decline in real terms of 24 per cent."

Do you have evidence that this is not the case?

I just sold my Victorian conversation flat.

I loved it but the damp issues and noise from upstairs were unreal. Don't think I would take the risk again.

The seller had a damp proof expert come and do an inspection and it took 5 hrs for a 2-bed flat. I was told it needed nearly 17k worth of damp proof work to make it ship shape.

Although i can understand why you like this property, it dose look wonderful

I absolutely love this location - had friends who lived on the square for a while. However I once owned a similar lower ground floor victorian conversion flat in West London. It got broken into and all my jewellery was taken, suffered from damp and it flooded badly a couple of times (we only lived there for 2 years) during heavy rain. So I would never advise getting one.

This one is nice for a similar price and location:

rightmove.co.uk/properties/136511171#/?channel=RES_BUYrightmove.co.uk/properties/136511171#/?channel=RES_BUY

Nice, but I think that's about 20k over OPs budget.

I couldn't look at the bins on the street if they are a permanent feature. Unless the photos were badly timed on bin day and they aren't there the rest of the week.

Sorry finding it hard to answer to all the messages, thanks all for your comments! A few more things from my end:

• the concerns re damp and security concern me so I don't think I'd consider a lower ground flat; I do wonder if a ground floor one or terraced house is very different though?
• it's true that prices in London have stagnated for flats but I think as a buyer is a good thing as we might be able to get something decent within our price range now
• we wouldn't be buying with the idea to resell after 3-4 years but we'd like somewhere to settle, if not a forever home at least a 6-7+ years home
• we could afford a house further out but we have decided against that because of several factors, mainly: loving the area and feeling at home, school for DD, excellent commute, amenities, suits our lifestyle
• ideally we want a garden property though, maybe a maisonette; we'd like to have pets (a cat) and I think it wouldn't be allowed in a proper building?

I never wanted a garden flat because of security but actually the garden ones on my road were pretty secure. If you're terraced with high fences it's quite hard to access the garden in the first place. Obviously window locks, alarms etc can provide further security & Surbiton is fairly safe crime wise. Damp, it is what it is I guess.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea if you are going to stay there for more than 7 yrs. I would be mindful though if you do plan to move you may then be priced out of houses in the surrounding areas & obviously you have the potential upheaval for secondary schools. That may not bother you but I wanted mine to have "roots" from primary level.

Pets weren't a problem in my maisonette but I don't know what the blanket rules are.

Good luck with the search!

@frippu sorry just one more question re security, would a maisonette with private garden not also normally have a high fence like a terraced house? I had assumed it was the same, at least they seem the same when I look at pictures?
Yes, being prices up is a concern. Being from Europe, I don't really mind apartment living, it's what I am used to and have always done all my life so it wouldn't bother me per se; I do want to do what's best for DD of course but I am not sure whether a bigger house in an area we love less would be the solution.

It's lovely, but...
I would never a lower ground or basement flat again because of the damp. Thing is, it can look OK and get past a survey, but damp will crop up! I was stuck in a lower basement flat for many years and you literally couldn't believe what was ruined, even shoes on the floor. I wouldn't touch with a bargepole, from personal, lived experience.

Lockdown was over some time ago. Of course property prices stagnate periodically, but when prices rise, London values rise faster and higher than most areas of the country. There’s always pressure that are are far more people who want to live here than available properties.

Interest rates have just gone back to their pre-financial crisis level, when no-one thought anything of 6%+.

@Mirabai there is going to be more people buying flats now surely, given budgets will significantly shrink due to the high rates?! Yes they will go down eventually but it can take a while I think

@HolyParc we were end terrace but had a very high fence & the rest of the row varied but obviously people can put their own fence in.

We would have probably stayed in our flat if no dc. It was lovely & big, the house we moved to is not actually loads bigger but obviously more scope to do extension, garden office etc.

I found once our dc were in school our lifestyles changed quite a bit anyway and my weekends are very different to even when they were toddlers!

Fairly standard London flat layout. It's okay but nothing special.

Cant comment on price as I don't know that area.

That’s a good point. And with lockdowns receding in the memory flats are more attractive on that basis.

Burglars just hop over back fences in London - it’s not any particular protection.

They still need access from the street.