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Original poster

There's something dodgy, isn't there?

106 replies

ginghamstarfish · 12/06/2023 15:32

Buying a house, 3 years old with ASHP and underfloor heating. When we viewed we took shoes off and could not feel any UFH so asked (in March and it was cold). Seller said they had been away and only just turned it up but it takes a long time to respond. We asked about the warranty for the ASHP as we understood they all had at least 5 years. They said yes it did. We asked if it had been serviced, they said yes, October 2022.

We viewed again a couple of weeks later. Same again, said they were going away so had turned heating to minimum. We looked at the thermostats and they were turned down to 18.
We made an offer, it was accepted etc. Property information form asks 'when was boiler last serviced' and asks for copy of documentation - they wrote October 2022. No copy of any proof, nor could they give proof of 5 year warranty. We asked, they ignored again, asked again via estate agent, can't find it., then said the warranty was actually 2 years and expired. We asked them to contact the company who did it, to get a copy - nothing. I contacted the company who installed it to ask they had service records for that address but they will not give me any information (data protection).

So we asked - many weeks ago - that it be serviced prior to exchange. They finally agreed, giving a date of last Friday 9th June. Today we were expecting the documentation from this, but when our solicitor asked today, they say they were 'unable to have it done'.
I am convinced they are lying and the ASHP is not working properly or has a major fault. This is a MAJOR part of the purchase and reflected in the price, but if we complete and find it's not working it could cost thousands to repair or replace. I am now calling round to find an engineer myself, but pretty pissed off if I have to pay for a service to someone else's property. Would you agree there's something dodgy or am I being paranoid? The alternative is to ask for a price reduction?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 16/06/2023 19:36

I think the 1st year PIL were there their electric bill was £7k they spent hours having engineers out, they tried to charge them £££££ until I told them that they had to put in writing that it wasn't fit for purpose. Suddenly they stopped asking for money. It is better now but they daren't touch it!!!

BishopRock · 16/06/2023 19:58

I think you'd be incredibly foolish to continue without a massive reduction in price that will completely cover a.new heating system.

MaverickSnoopy · 16/06/2023 20:24

I can see why your DH feels like this. He probably thinks it's insane to walk away from a house when you have no evidence that there's an issue. I'm with you though. You do have evidence. The sellers have failed to provide everything requested, that's your evidence.

I would personally run far away from this one unless they can provide the documentation you have asked for. I absolutely would not exchange in tye current circumstances. Think about what you stand to loose by taking a leap of faith.

RidingMyBike · 16/06/2023 20:38

This! Whilst I would absolutely buy a house with an ASHP again and would prefer it over a boiler, this one is raising all sorts of questions that it hasn't been properly installed and there is some kind of problem.

What's their stated reason for moving out of a house they can only have been in for a max of 3 years?

MaggieFS · 16/06/2023 20:48

If you go ahead, you could be walking into a massive headache which will take time and money to fix, potentially as well as blood, sweat and tears. Only you know if the house is worth it in the long run, so you can decide the value that headache is worth and revise your offer less that amount.

But you need to go in eyes wide open and be prepared to deal with the crap. If you think you'll regret it, walk away. Another house will come up and you'll probably be happier more quickly.

mateysmum · 16/06/2023 21:14

Definitely he has something to hide. I reckon it is the ASHP. UFCH should work fine and a leak is very unlikely unless the installation was incompetent.
We have UFCH throughout. A while ago we had water dripping through our ceiling and I was terrified it was the heating. Plumber came with an infrared censor and within 10 mins of the heating being switched on it was clear that the heating was fine. Turned out it was a leak from a loo. So no need to wait hours to do a test.
If you do get your own engineer rou d I suggest you try and be there for the visit then nobody can bullshit you.

mateysmum · 16/06/2023 21:19

If he is so anxious to exchange say exchange will not take place till after you have tested the heating. Good luck to him if he wants to put it back on the market. In the last month the market has slowed massively due to the turmoil in the mortgage market and he is likely to get a lower price.

Original poster
ginghamstarfish · 16/06/2023 23:01

DH thinks I am a pessimist (true) but really, in this market, and at this stage, who would risk losing a cash buyer with no chain? The property is nice, modern, but not in a particularly desirable area, village ok but no shop, no school, no doctor etc, no public transport, 5 miles to nearest small town, slightly depressed rural area. I know it sounds crap but we WFH and have seen nothing else half decent, and have been renting for a year, having already been let down twice by sellers. Hence my not having much trust to start with!

OP posts:
wildfirewonder · 17/06/2023 07:26

In these situations I think it is helpful not to badge things in terms of being an optimist or a pessimist.

The reality is the vendor has behaved unusually and you currently have no evidence the ASHP or UFH work.

The decision you are making is therefore 'are we happy to proceed to exchange at this price on a property without working heating?'

C4tastrophe · 17/06/2023 08:14

If the House was a ‘bargain’ then yes you could proceed, but as it’s not, you shouldn’t.
At the vendors age, they must have bought it with a view to dying in situ, and now they are selling their Dream Hose?
Until you get the engineers report, in writing, I would not commit.
They should email it as a pdf anyway, no reason you shouldn’t have it on Monday.

SequinsandStilettos · 17/06/2023 08:33

Yes - invoices are paperless now, aren't they so why the delay?

BishopRock · 17/06/2023 09:15

It's got nothing to do with being a pessimist!

The vendor is behaving very suspiciously about an issue that is going to be very expensive to fix.

mateysmum · 19/06/2023 11:11

How's it going OP?

MooMooSharoo · 19/06/2023 16:54

ginghamstarfish · 16/06/2023 23:01

DH thinks I am a pessimist (true) but really, in this market, and at this stage, who would risk losing a cash buyer with no chain? The property is nice, modern, but not in a particularly desirable area, village ok but no shop, no school, no doctor etc, no public transport, 5 miles to nearest small town, slightly depressed rural area. I know it sounds crap but we WFH and have seen nothing else half decent, and have been renting for a year, having already been let down twice by sellers. Hence my not having much trust to start with!

Apologies if this has been asked and answered, but if the house is only 3 years old, is this that something would be covered by the NHBC guarantee or a warranty?

I can't imagine a system like that isn't expected to last for a good few years longer than it has already.

Only way I'd be agreeing to an exchange is if the vendor accepts a retention of £XX,XXX to be set aside for any remedial works to the heating.

Original poster
ginghamstarfish · 20/06/2023 10:52

Ok, Tuesday now, and we finally got a copy of the actual service document yesterday so think it's all fine. In hindsight I wish we had arranged it ourselves though. Think we are going ahead now, I'm still inclined to step away but DH tells me we have no real alternative and I do understand that - impossible to find another rental, especially one big enough for all our stuff (has been boxed up for the last year and filling two rooms here). So, either stuff in storage and us in crappy small rental - if we could find one in the time - or us and our stuff in crappy bigger rental - again if we could find one - and start the whole fecking process again. It's a year since we sold our house, have been let down twice by sellers in this time, and looked at many properties. There is now very little on the market in the last few months given interest rates etc, so ...... feeling a bit miserable really, when it should be a happy time that's we are finally buying a house. Fucking bastard seller.

OP posts:
Original poster
ginghamstarfish · 20/06/2023 10:55

MooMooSharoo · 19/06/2023 16:54

Apologies if this has been asked and answered, but if the house is only 3 years old, is this that something would be covered by the NHBC guarantee or a warranty?

I can't imagine a system like that isn't expected to last for a good few years longer than it has already.

Only way I'd be agreeing to an exchange is if the vendor accepts a retention of £XX,XXX to be set aside for any remedial works to the heating.

Show quote history

Yes it is 3 years old, NHBC warranty is very limited anyway and covers only structural faults. The ASHP should have had an extended warranty of 5 years, but the seller apparently ignored the large red banners stating this in the manual/documents (that we have seen) and did not register for this. Thus the normal warranty of 2 years has expired. Who ignores a thing like that? What a twat.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 20/06/2023 11:34

Can you still ask for an indemnity policy to be taken out due to lack of extended warranty?

Original poster
ginghamstarfish · 20/06/2023 12:17

RandomMess · 20/06/2023 11:34

Can you still ask for an indemnity policy to be taken out due to lack of extended warranty?

I asked our solicitor and he said this was not really a thing ... and ASHPs are not yet really recognised by insurance - was doing house insurance quotes yesterday, adding on Home Emergency cover as we alway have had that - but NONE of them cover solar, ASHP or any other modern technology, only gas and oil boilers.

OP posts:
KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2023 12:57

ginghamstarfish · 20/06/2023 10:52

Ok, Tuesday now, and we finally got a copy of the actual service document yesterday so think it's all fine. In hindsight I wish we had arranged it ourselves though. Think we are going ahead now, I'm still inclined to step away but DH tells me we have no real alternative and I do understand that - impossible to find another rental, especially one big enough for all our stuff (has been boxed up for the last year and filling two rooms here). So, either stuff in storage and us in crappy small rental - if we could find one in the time - or us and our stuff in crappy bigger rental - again if we could find one - and start the whole fecking process again. It's a year since we sold our house, have been let down twice by sellers in this time, and looked at many properties. There is now very little on the market in the last few months given interest rates etc, so ...... feeling a bit miserable really, when it should be a happy time that's we are finally buying a house. Fucking bastard seller.

'We can't find a rental big enough' is a bit of a horrible reason to buy a house.

Have you thought about/tried expanding your area?

RidingMyBike · 20/06/2023 17:15

Some sellers seem to have a very random attitude to paperwork. We've owned our house nearly a year now and recently discovered our seller had carried on paying for the boiler insurance. The boiler was removed months ago, apart from anything else.

The insurance was in his wife's name. She died several years before Covid! So he hadn't bothered changing that either.

sueelleker · 20/06/2023 19:28

She probably dealt with it. If I'd died before my husband, he wouldn't have had a clue about household finances.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 20/06/2023 19:41

C4tastrophe · 17/06/2023 08:14

If the House was a ‘bargain’ then yes you could proceed, but as it’s not, you shouldn’t.
At the vendors age, they must have bought it with a view to dying in situ, and now they are selling their Dream Hose?
Until you get the engineers report, in writing, I would not commit.
They should email it as a pdf anyway, no reason you shouldn’t have it on Monday.

gosh, we bought a house when DH was slightly older than this, and we might well move if we felt like it! @

Original poster
ginghamstarfish · 21/06/2023 23:49

KievLoverTwo · 20/06/2023 12:57

'We can't find a rental big enough' is a bit of a horrible reason to buy a house.

Have you thought about/tried expanding your area?

Show quote history

We have been looking at a huge area, in fact pretty much a whole county and into neighbouring one!

OP posts:
Original poster
ginghamstarfish · 21/06/2023 23:56

I've already explained about the past year. We had a very good offer on our house, but were let down by the seller so decided to carry on with our sale and rent for 6 months. Took 2 months to find a rental so all our stuff had to go in storage while we stayed with a relative. Found rental, kept all stuff boxed up as we hoped to be in our own place by the end of the 6 months. Next seller let us down by deciding not to sell after all. So another 6 months rental while living out of a suitcase. Hence being fed up and very keen to buy the only halfway decent house we've seen.

OP posts:
AlfietheSchnauzer · 22/06/2023 01:10

I still wouldn't proceed OP. If anything goes wrong with that system in the future it's going to be a living hell trying to find someone to fix it, not to mention the cost. Being serviced now doesn't mean it won’t break next week or in September, just as it's getting cold.
I'd honestly look at that new build you mentioned. Everything new, covered, you can register extended warranties, worry free.

If I went ahead with that sale, I'd just be waiting to find whatever issue is hiding. I realise they're in their 70s but and do may be downsizing or going into care home/family care but generally not many people go to the bother of buying a nice new home and then selling within 3 years! I mean, some people do obviously but it's certainly not common unless there's issues or a life change