There's something dodgy, isn't there?

[ginghamstarfish]

Buying a house, 3 years old with ASHP and underfloor heating. When we viewed we took shoes off and could not feel any UFH so asked (in March and it was cold). Seller said they had been away and only just turned it up but it takes a long time to respond. We asked about the warranty for the ASHP as we understood they all had at least 5 years. They said yes it did. We asked if it had been serviced, they said yes, October 2022.

We viewed again a couple of weeks later. Same again, said they were going away so had turned heating to minimum. We looked at the thermostats and they were turned down to 18.
We made an offer, it was accepted etc. Property information form asks 'when was boiler last serviced' and asks for copy of documentation - they wrote October 2022. No copy of any proof, nor could they give proof of 5 year warranty. We asked, they ignored again, asked again via estate agent, can't find it., then said the warranty was actually 2 years and expired. We asked them to contact the company who did it, to get a copy - nothing. I contacted the company who installed it to ask they had service records for that address but they will not give me any information (data protection).

So we asked - many weeks ago - that it be serviced prior to exchange. They finally agreed, giving a date of last Friday 9th June. Today we were expecting the documentation from this, but when our solicitor asked today, they say they were 'unable to have it done'.
I am convinced they are lying and the ASHP is not working properly or has a major fault. This is a MAJOR part of the purchase and reflected in the price, but if we complete and find it's not working it could cost thousands to repair or replace. I am now calling round to find an engineer myself, but pretty pissed off if I have to pay for a service to someone else's property. Would you agree there's something dodgy or am I being paranoid? The alternative is to ask for a price reduction?

A service, if it was done, doesn't say anything about the state of the heating and if it's working or not. I think you're foolish not to have sent your own engineer to do a report. Why won't you consider that? A couple of hundred pounds isn't a lot to spend to find out if it's working. I could have my boiler 'serviced'. That doesn't mean it still doesn't need to be replaced.

They could be pushing for an immediate closing before you figure out the heating is not functioning. Or it could be totally fine and they are just not bothering showing you that.

🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️

OMG. There is something seriously wrong here.

Did you appoint the person who did the service and can you ring them.

Wet UFH is brilliant assuming installed correctly. Ie there should be no piping joins under the floor. But their behaviour is rather suspicious. Frankly once it is on 5 hours you can tell and even sooner if the engineer has an infrared device which will not only check that it is heating up but also if there are cold spots, ie if one of the circuits isn’t working.

Massively dodgy!

I think he knows it’s broken so he wants to pressure you to exchange. I’d call his bluff.

It's fucked and he knows it.

Run run run OP. The expense of storage and finding a place to live will, I suspect, pale into insignificance compared to whatever disaster lurks at the property.

There's obviously something massively wrong. And who knows what else is wrong that you haven't noticed.

I’d say you are happy to exchange as soon you get a guarantee that the ASHP and system are in good working order, or immediately if the price is lowered by the cost of a new system.

Cheeky fuckers. They must think you Floated up the Liffey in a Rinso Bubble, to quote an Irish friend of mine.

Yes, I am strongly inclined to drop the whole thing but DH thinks otherwise. We will discuss it more over the weekend. He is more trusting than me. I am looking at other properties just now, some newbuild houses on small developments which will be ready in August/September.

Nrtft but I bought a house with ashp and ufh which I suspected had issues (house was cheap) and it does. It does work but it was a nightmare getting anyone to service the actual unit and no one locally can help with the system side and controls which all must be correctly chosen and installed for everything to work well.
it does take two days for the floors to warm up and the never feel hot. You don’t want them to.
If I was in your position I would price up a gas or oil combi or system boiler depending on the size of the house and if mains gas is Available and cost the pipe work, rads and labour and knock this off the asking price of the house.

Unfortunately no gas in the village, but would prefer if necessary to pay for solar and maybe infrared or suchlike.

Honestly PIL had the ASHP thing utter nightmare and it was brand new!

Don’t exchange it’s a trap

It does seem a bit off, especially if they've been unable to provide any solid documentation despite your persistent requests. And yeah, not being able to feel the underfloor heating not once but twice does raise an eyebrow.

My first bit of advice? Trust your gut. If something feels dodgy, it might very well be.

In your shoes, I'd definitely consider getting an independent engineer in, even if it's a bit of a hassle (and potential expense). At least you'd have some peace of mind and a professional opinion on what's going on. If there is an issue and the sellers refuse to deal with it, asking for a price reduction would seem fair, considering you'd have to foot the bill for any repairs or replacement.

It's worth remembering that there's always another house out there, as painful as that might sound. If the sellers aren't being straightforward now, who's to say there won't be other issues cropping up down the line? Don't be afraid to walk away if it comes down to it.

While it's not a common practice, you could consider running checks on the sellers as well. There are a number of resources out there for doing property owner searches, so you might be able to dig up more about their history with the property. A simple online search of their names might reveal some interesting information as well. Of course, respect their privacy and stay within legal boundaries while doing this.

Also, you could connect with any known previous buyers or renters if you can find them. They might be able to provide some insight or validate your concerns.

They sound really dodgy. I bet it wasn't installed properly and they're trying to get out and live elsewhere rather than deal with it!

We have an ASHP running UFH to heat the whole house. We chose to install it and we love it BUT it has to be properly installed by someone who knows what they're doing and properly sized for the property. The installer needs to do heat loss calculations and it also depends on how well insulated the house is. And what type of flooring it is - tiles and LVT work well with UFH, carpet less well.

Our ASHP works well and keeps the house at a lovely even temperature around 20/21 degrees during the colder months. It is economical compared to our old gas boiler set up. The floors don't feel warm except in some areas where pipes run close together or where we have tiles, so I wouldn't worry about that. ASHP produce lower levels of heat that you run for longer periods of time rather than the peaks and troughs of a boiler so you don't get blasts of heat with them. But they're great if you're at home for much of the day.

There's a FB group for 'U.K. heat pumps' and a lot of information there about how to run them correctly and efficiently.

It's clear from that group there are a lot of installers out there who don't know what they're doing with pictures of bad installations though!

I wouldn't exchange. The seller is extremely dodgy.

@ginghamstarfish Why didn’t you send your own engineer? And he wants to exchange before the report is delivered?

Fuck that, call his bluff.
There is no fucking way I’d continue now.

If he goes back on the market now he’s lost 50k.

IT'S A TRAP!

Yeah he's trying to pressure you because he knows the heating doesn't work & he can't get it fixed either due to how it was installed, or it's massively expensive to resolve.

I don't think there's an issue with installation, was done by the developer, and have seen the installation docs.

There are known concerns that currently there are both a lack of engineers to install and service ASHP, coupled with installations being done by engineers who are not specialist installers. This is no doubt causing problems both with ASHP not working correctly due to inexperienced installations and lack of servicing and/or fault fixing.

Reading your posts OP, I would expect this is the situation with the house - possibly a poor installation leading to the ASHP not doing its job as planned, or lack of engineers to fix/service.

I could foresee this becoming an ongoing problem, only you and your husband can decide if this is an acceptable option. Higher electricity bills for possibly no 100% heating and the chance nobody will be able to fix it.

Don’t do it
call his bluff

My parents have an ASHP (installed by my dad who read every manual, and diligently put it all together before getting it finally commissioned by the professionals). The point of an ASHP is that it stays on low all the time. It's not normal heating that you whack up to give the house a blast when you get home from a weekend away.

I have underfloor heating with a conventional boiler, and I do quite like it - turns the whole floor into a radiator, and is lovely in the winter.

Feels very suspicious OP. Could you call the service engineer and get a verbal report?

Fuck that guy and the circus he rode in on.

Call his bluff, and have a bit of fun along the way.

Insist that he gets a professional cleaner before handing over keys. Tell him you want all the light fixtures as seen and the curtains.

Tell him you want a locksmith to change the locks at his expense.

Fuck, tell him you want his first born's inheritance rights and the right to chose the music at his wake.