There's something dodgy, isn't there?

[ginghamstarfish]

Buying a house, 3 years old with ASHP and underfloor heating. When we viewed we took shoes off and could not feel any UFH so asked (in March and it was cold). Seller said they had been away and only just turned it up but it takes a long time to respond. We asked about the warranty for the ASHP as we understood they all had at least 5 years. They said yes it did. We asked if it had been serviced, they said yes, October 2022.

We viewed again a couple of weeks later. Same again, said they were going away so had turned heating to minimum. We looked at the thermostats and they were turned down to 18.
We made an offer, it was accepted etc. Property information form asks 'when was boiler last serviced' and asks for copy of documentation - they wrote October 2022. No copy of any proof, nor could they give proof of 5 year warranty. We asked, they ignored again, asked again via estate agent, can't find it., then said the warranty was actually 2 years and expired. We asked them to contact the company who did it, to get a copy - nothing. I contacted the company who installed it to ask they had service records for that address but they will not give me any information (data protection).

So we asked - many weeks ago - that it be serviced prior to exchange. They finally agreed, giving a date of last Friday 9th June. Today we were expecting the documentation from this, but when our solicitor asked today, they say they were 'unable to have it done'.
I am convinced they are lying and the ASHP is not working properly or has a major fault. This is a MAJOR part of the purchase and reflected in the price, but if we complete and find it's not working it could cost thousands to repair or replace. I am now calling round to find an engineer myself, but pretty pissed off if I have to pay for a service to someone else's property. Would you agree there's something dodgy or am I being paranoid? The alternative is to ask for a price reduction?

A new boiler on a three year old house is a big issue, and very uncommon.

You didn’t say it was three years old! But it remains financially far less of an issue than the sort of structural work missing paperwork can lead to.

To reciprocate on context we paid 80k to sort out a badly built extension that had no paperwork having been assured in conveyancing that a £350 indemnity would cover all our risks.

ASHP can be a pain if not installed correctly and serviced regularly. We had one in our old house and literally sold the house to get rid of the headache coz it had so many problems - even companies that specialised couldn't solve it at time. Before we sold we got as much fixed as we could + serviced (even though the buyer hadn't asked for it). Didn't want to hand over any known problems.

Without all papers and proofs I'd say DO NOT buy the house. If you are desperate then it's worth getting YOUR engineer in to check and report the current status and then proceeding known how good the system is and what are the known problems.

I would want a detailed spec of what is installed, and a guarantee that it is working and does the job you need it to do.

No point an engineer telling you ‘yep, pump all working’ if there is not enough capacity to heat the room, or there is some unseen pipe issue under a solid floor.

There is obviously something they are hiding here. If it was installed by a relative from instructions on you tube they just need to say!

Find out what it would cost to rip it out and start again, and reduce your offer by that much. That is what I would do, because that is what you could be looking at.

@Whenwillglorioussummercome sounds like you had a case against the solicitor if you were assured by them that the indemnity would cover all risks.

Honestly it is probabably fine. You are right to check it though. Take a deep breath and calm down. They may well just be paranoid about heating costs.

Have you checked their electricity bills.

You should always get your own independent survey done of stuff like this as you can't rely on who the seller instructs and ridiculously house survey tends to exclude and tell you to get a heating engineer.

You also need the survey to be carried out for reliance purposes - its not just a quick once over. They need to give you a report. Use a big company and check their insurances.

This will become more normal in conveyancing as time goes on. It was different when hearing pipes etc were more easily exposed.

Many years ago now. We lived and learned. But it’s why statements like:

It's not at all unusual with house buying that the seller can't produce evidence like certificates to show what work has been done. Sometimes building work was done so long ago that regulations have changed, paperwork has gone missing etc And sometimes it's just that paperwork was never obtained. Usually the seller or buyer can purchase an indemnity pretty cheaply so it's not a major problem.

always make me wince. And many conveyancers, especially inexperienced ones, are ready to say this sort of thing, also (very much) agents trying to get a sale over the line.

I think you have maybe got a bit het up. You don’t even know if it’s not working yet and you’re hurling abuse and wanting to pull out.

it’s very easy to find out . Ask them to switch it on and go round. And you’ve the engineer. Your husband is right. And you need to try to calm down.

Do you know for sure this underfloor heating in linked to the boiler as some underfloor heating is electric

She’s not hurling abuse, she’s venting her frustration on MN.
In your shoes OP I would assume the heating doesn’t work and decide what to do on that basis

Is it your own engineer who is going to check the heating? I'd make an appointment with the estate agent for you to meet your engineer there yourself when the venors are out. I wouldn't rely on them producing someone who is working for them and has no reason to highlight any issues for you.

It's got an air sourced heat pump. Are you deliberately ignoring the details?

You don't have to pay your engineer to service it, just inspect it.

Ask the seller to reflect the cost of your engineer in the final settlement and, if there is a problem, ask your engineer for a quote to fix or replace and adjust your offer accordingly.

If that's not acceptable to them, let them move on and try and scam the next person in to buying an unheated property.

Logically I know it makes sense but it's the injustice of this fucker playing us for so long and thinking he's got us over a barrel

clearly your idea of hurling abuse and mine are different. If I said the same about uou on here, would you report it as abuse, or say nah she’s just venting her frustration about my daft answer?

That is not hurling abuse.

first line of my OP - '3 years old'

If the ASHP and/or UFH was not working (and price was reduced accordingly) I would not dream of replacing like with like in any case, as it would never have been my choice. No gas there, so it would probably be solar plus infrared heating or suchlike.

If you called me a Fucker yes I would report it as abuse.
As OP is not directly addressing this particular fucker I don’t see how it’s hurling abuse.

Pending what happens on Friday, in addition to sending someone there myself to do an inspection, we will ask for all heating to be on (will need maybe 24 hours notice to have time to heat up) for his inspection.

Your solicitor can write a condition of purchase into the missives; the sale won't go ahead until there is a professional test and service of the UHF showing it to be in working order.

I think that I would get your people to say to their people well in advance that they are in the last chance saloon: they have messed you about several times so if the situation is not sorted out to your satisfaction* by XXX date then you are walking away. And mean it!

Make a list of what "to your satisfaction" means so there is no wriggle room.

I was responding to a different poster about her boiler. If she was referring to your heat pump, then that got confused, as I don’t think of that as a boiler - far more expensive.

I don’t think the OP is ‘het up’ about this! They have twice been given reasons why the heating is off. Been told there is no record of servicing. Not been put in touch with the service engineers or seen any evidence that the vendors are trying to get evidence. Been misled about the warranty, been told a date that the service engineer would come, which didn’t happen.

If I had perfectly good heating in good working order and wanted to sell my house I would be getting the evidence / getting it dealt with. Not fobbing the buyer off!

Update of sorts ... apparently the ASHP service was done this morning. A handwritten and barely legible letter - written by the seller - was sent to the solicitor saying - yes the service was done today. Apparently the official document is to be sent at a later date (but who knows when?). Anyhow that's not the best thing - we received a call from our solicitor at 2.30pm saying the sellers now wants to exchange TODAY or failing that Monday. If we do not agree he will put the house back on the market. You'd think most sellers would be thrilled to have a buyer who is renting, no chain, no mortgage etc. Only thing that buyer wanted, and asked for 2 months ago, was a service to show that the heating system was working. So they want us to exchange on the basis of a handwritten letter saying the ASHP was in fact serviced. Perhaps we should ask them to exchange on the basis of our handwritten letter saying 'we promise to pay .... on ... date'. We are now having a think about this over the weekend but inclined to say no, and back on Rightmove now.

Dodgier than ever!!!