anyone thinking of buying a Mccarthey stone retirement flat DONT

[Isseywith3witchycats]

3 years ago my MIL died and to date trying to sell her flat in Braintree has been an absolute nightmare, 1st buyer found a cheaper one, second buyer pulled out on exchange day current buyer has been waiting for paperwork to come from them which has taken forever just about to go to exchanging paperwork and they have now said prospective buyer can not buy it as she is 58 years old this flat was bought 15 years ago for £147000 and even at £105000 which was what we accepted still cannot seem to sell it, thing is in the complex its in its one of the best ones large due to being on a corner and ground floor so direct access to the gardens and have had a brand new boiler put in and over the three years it has cost service charges so god knows what we are going to do when whats left of the estate money has gone 7 heirs so each heir wont get a massive amount of money

But one way or another, the working and able-bodied population needs to care for 'our' elderly and frail
I agree but imo we also need to strongly incentivise those who are not yet elderly and frail to make accommodation choices which are in their long-term best interests. More than that we need to (as a society) make sure that we have accommodation available which is designed to meet the needs of the elderly.
Rather than designed to line the pockets of rapacious property developers!!

Given the huge need for general affordable housing, lack of space to build, and the abundance of these sorts of flats sitting empty, whilst new ones spring up continuously, a cap on the number that can be built would be helpful.

Perhaps the companies need to be helping renovate older ones to keep their developments desirable for new and current tenants.

But we do have an ageing population so these could come in handy in the next 20 years.

The price of the one in Canterbury is crazily low. The 'similar properties nearby' shows one on the market for £240k, admittedly that is a new build, but it shows that even with a massive price reduction they still struggle to sell.

"I'm puzzled the second hand ones aren't more in demand."

Trouble is, they tend to look rather sad and a bit abandoned. They need refurbishing even if just new decor, but some will need kitchens/bathrooms. There may not be money to do that by the purchaser until previous house is sold, and where is the elderly person going to live in the meantime? And, I've seen this with my own older relatives, any kind of refurbishment is overwhelming and difficult to organise, especially if you're less comfortable using the internet or can't drive to shops to explore options.

We looked round one probate house (not retirement flat) and the estate agent was very cagey about what had happened to the owner - we suspected they'd probably died in the house, which didn't bother us, but would put off some buyers. It was very sad - there was still a floral bedspread on the bed, towels in bathroom and ornaments etc around.

We talked about buying one for DMIL, but the house manager told us she was too old to settle in well at 85. Her advice was that the most successful occupants were those who moved in at about 65 as couples, made friends in the block who would be a comfort when one partner went. They are a nightmare to sell on though.

@shinynewapple22 well, yes, the need for residential care could pose challenges. But there are two of them, so it is less likely that they would both require residential care simultaneously, and while one is living in the flat as their only permanent home, it can't be counted as a chargeable asset. And the local authority/home providing the care, should the flat be empty because both/one remaining parent was in residential care, can just take out a charge against the future sale of the flat. There wouldn't be a situation where care was withheld because the flat was waiting for a buyer.

Of course, we can never foresee the future. But our hope is that the risk of needing residential care is reduced by the safer environment they now live in, the reduced stress and the increased social interaction with the other residents and wider community (library, church, hobby groups all on their doorstep), plus the ease of contact with their immediate family. My father was perpetually falling over - miraculously, never broke anything (good dense bones! - all that football and weightbearing exercise when younger) - but not having stairs, and a really nice walk-in shower rather than a bath they have to step over, and well-designed kitchen and so on is an immediate boost to their energy levels and security. They can walk to the library, to Waitrose, to the health centre. Even walking within the complex to the communal sitting room or the recycling point will help keep them fit.

I wonder how future pensioners will afford these properties. Lots of people can't afford to buy whilst of working age, so won't have a property to sell to purchase a retirement flat with and also, lots of people have inadequate pension provision, so won't be able to afford the monthly service charge either.

These places are not aimed at that market.

My parents bought a new flat in a Kingsdale property 16 years ago - a similar set up to McCarthy and Stone. Although there are particular issues with McCarthy and Stone - and there was a Panorama about their financing a while ago.

It has been an absolute godsend. They moved in when they downsized as a couple and now my father at 93 lives there alone after my Mums death. They have emergency cords in every room and he wears an alarm. There is 24/7 staff on site to attend in any emergency. They are immensely kind and supportive - when my mother died and with subsequent health and frailty issues my father has faced. I had a long chat with the manager today about getting him more care and our shared concern to support him staying there as long as possible, as he approaches the end of his life. She knows him so well and cares a lot about him.

The residents are part of a social community with lots of activities going on including daily lunches provided in the communal dining room (though he can have it delivered to his flat too) alongside weekly film nights, social and chat groups. I am so glad my father lives there, he has friends there and he would now be in a care home if he'd lived independently.

Some of the flats there have been slow to sell - but they are mainly the one bedroom flats. The 2 bedrooms keep their value generally as they offer the opportunity to have a live in carer if required later. This might be what we do shortly.

I don't know think these retirement flats can be seen as a pure property investment in comparison to other houses and flats. Because its a supported living community and that is part of the value to the resident when they are alive and in terms of the peace of mind it gives to family/carers.

But the market they are aimed at is shrinking rapidly and yet they keep building them.

My dad had heard some horror stories about people having difficulty selling them, and decided against it. He was already living in a bungalow that he and my mum had moved to in their early sixties.
My dad was 70 when mum died, and a couple of years later put himself on the waiting list for a rented warden serviced flat in his town. I think it was just over a year before one came available, and he moved in straight away, dealing with the sale of the house at the same time.
He thrived there. Lots of social events, walking distance to doctors surgery and shops, dining room where he could have lunch if he felt like it. He got a cleaner recommended by another resident, and was able to enjoy the communal gardens in the summer (his large garden had become too much for him).
I have to say, if I outlive my husband I would like to do something similar. It made things more straightforward after his death, already downsized, no property to sell, just the flat to clear when notice was given.
This was nearly 20 years ago, but he always said he would recommend it as a way to go in retirement.

Is it? We have more older people than ever?

I think 70 is a good age, if you are on your own, to sell your home and move into a retirement home for the company and safety. Probably best to rent if that is an option.

I had to downsize when my husband died in 2016, and looked at all my options. I was 59.

I am unhappy the government have put the £85K care cap on hold, I doubt it will ever happen now.

I'll be 66 in April and after six years unexpected years, will finally get my pension thank heavens. I bought a bungalow (found out all the floors were rotten after moving in, all my equity spent on it) my kids will be able to sell easily and when I need it, will get private carers in. If that doesn't work I hope to go into the assisted living place here locally, we've also got a nursing home if I need medical care.

Very true, so how can that be?
the elderly as a proportion of the population are increasing but the subset of the elderly to whom these flats are marketed is decreasing?
And furthermore why would they keep building them knowing that the pool of customers is decreasing?

You are saying that basically the amount of wealthy pensioners is decreasing?

Decrease in wealthy pensioners would seem to be the implication?

I think it depends where you live obviously. Here in the SE there are masses of these properties and still building.I know there are issues when sale takes place as there can be in any leasehold apartment complex. When older people are downsizing from a large property they can buy from 260k which is a pittance in this area. I wasn't aware that many people rent these properties. It reminds me of Corrie and Norris and Ken.😉

We do but very soon they will not have the wealth and assets of the current over 60s, who as a generation, are the wealthiest of any generation. Generation X was the first to be less well off than the generation before them and Millennials are the same. I also do not know anyone under the age of 50 with a final salary pension for example. The wealthy pensioner market will shrink soon I think.

I totally get your frustration. But this thread is very counterproductive for you personally as surely it reduces the chances of you finding a buyer?

Lots of inheritance though. A lot of millennials are going to be very wealthy indeed.

I agree and that is my experience.

Not after they have handed over 40% in IHT.