anyone thinking of buying a Mccarthey stone retirement flat DONT

[Isseywith3witchycats]

3 years ago my MIL died and to date trying to sell her flat in Braintree has been an absolute nightmare, 1st buyer found a cheaper one, second buyer pulled out on exchange day current buyer has been waiting for paperwork to come from them which has taken forever just about to go to exchanging paperwork and they have now said prospective buyer can not buy it as she is 58 years old this flat was bought 15 years ago for £147000 and even at £105000 which was what we accepted still cannot seem to sell it, thing is in the complex its in its one of the best ones large due to being on a corner and ground floor so direct access to the gardens and have had a brand new boiler put in and over the three years it has cost service charges so god knows what we are going to do when whats left of the estate money has gone 7 heirs so each heir wont get a massive amount of money

I agree with @SuffolkBargeWoman and @2bazookas .
All this is clear when you buy in the first place.
I mean, it isn't surprising that a retirement apartment has a rule you have to be over 60. Especially when pension won't kick in until 67 (for me, and I am nearly 60) - I don't think that can come as a surprise.
Your posts do come across as if it is all about your inheritance entitlement, without any consideration that she presumably chose to use her money to make her later years as pleasurable as possible.

Now, I know a lot of people that have looked at the 'Extra Care' ones that have been built near us over the last 10 - 15 years and decided the terms and conditions aren't right for them. It is expensive and the whole selling back at the price you bought it thing, added to the service charges means it eats in to any money you might otherwise leave but hundreds of people really benefit from the attraction of living in that sort of a place, and therefore choose to use their money that way.
As long as you read the contracts and understand the implications, then no-one is forcing anyone to buy one.

On a related topic I think there should be laws against buying bungalows and converting them into 2 storey houses.
We need bungalows for our elderly and disabled population.

I work for McCarthy Stone in one of their biggest developments . I will say the majority of residents buy into their new homes knowingly their dependents/heirs are already financially independent for their own retirement. Our vacant apartments do always sell maybe not as quick as some would like but they do ..
it's hard because we are independent living it's not a care home . Medicine is getting better and people are living longer and not needing extra help until they need more actual care assistance.

I do not deny that the ground rent and service charge are expensive but it's for those who can afford it . I will also add that from own experience working there we love every resident and bend over backwards to help them out .. we do so much more than the families know ..
so yep I know we get a bad rap but myself can only dream of living the life our residents have .. god knows the care il be able to afford when the time comes .

My friend was lumbered with the monthly service charge for her late step mothers flat for three years, despite none occupying the flat and using its services.

She wasn't asking too much for it, she was asking a fraction of what the new ones cost, and of what her step mum paid. She wasn't in this for the insurance so didn't care about the price, she just wanted shut of it and to be able to stop paying the service charge. But McCarthy and Stone pitch their new ones so heavily that no-one's interested in the older ones, and there's an over supply.

Same happened to another friend very recently. She thought she was lucky because she only had it on her hands (alongside the service charge) for 18 months.

Also I think we are starting to see the start of the end of financial salary pensions .. that's probably why we have entered into rentals . I've not got a solution but please do know that I personally work with a great team of people and they really go the extra mile to make your loved ones taken care off .

No not true , families can pitch their own ones . Plenty of them on rightmove

What's not true? Your sentence had nothing to do with what I said.
M&D's publicity machine is huge and people want to buy new flats based on their glossy brochures and sales pitch. Not the one in the estate agents window that looks a bit sad, used and empty.

My guess is that the majority of pale don't even look for them in agents. They go straight to the company, because they advertise so effectively.

For the person who inherits they've got to pay service charges, council tax, standing charges for utilities and keep up with any maintenance needed. All for an empty flat they can't live in, can't rent out and can't find a buyer for at any price. And they have to do all this FOR YEARS from their own wages/savings or from any cash savings left to them by you (which unless it's a large amount won't last long).

If they can't afford the payments it could ruin their lives to be liable for these costs. Even if they can afford these extra payments until it's eventually sold, I'm sure most people would rather do something else with the money! I wouldn't want to be totally broke and struggling for years just so I could inherit a large sum at the end of it when the property is sold. I believe in living life in the present because none of us knows how long we've got left.

I'd rather inherit nothing than inherit one of these properties. It's not a blessing it's a millstone round the neck. By all means buy one if you like, but check with whoever you're planning to leave it to whether they actually want it and fully understand the implications of taking it on, before you go making your will.

I think anyone buying one should do so on the understanding that the only thing you can realistically do with it upon death is to gift it back to the company you originally bought it from.

Agree with this entirely. We ‘lost money’ on Mum’s flat, and it also wasn’t the easiest to sell - but the new lease of life it gave her, and the peace of mind it gave us to know there was someone on hand and checking on the residents, was worth every Penny.

What is the alternative, too? Full time residential care would certainly have cost much more (and she was too stubbornly independent to accept that anyway). The other option would have been for her to be in a flat somewhere with no one on hand, all her neighbours out to work all day.

I can’t say trying to sell it wasn’t frustrating and a bit worrying, but I still absolutely think it was the right thing for her.

Okay
what if I leave it to a charity, or....no one?

My parents have one. They ought brand new. They were happy to do so and because they moved while still healthy it has been perfect. Their bills are low. They have lots of social events, are well located, have an eye kept on them by a warden. I wish more older people live like this - if there is nothing left and when we have few options for our elders then it has been money well spent.

Drop the price. It's only worth what someone will pay.

Surely this is only the case until the will is executed though?

Once probate has finished and you've inherited the property, that's when you become liable for the service charges...

Their is no 'estate' at that point. The legal title of the property has transferred to you and you are now legally required to pay the service charges and (as per all inherited property) council tax, insurance, etc.

This is the main issue really - this is what it boils down to...

Being required to continue to pay significant monthly service charges for services not being used for a long time because there's an over-supply and most people moving in want a new flat, not one that needs updating.

Oh, so people will be allowed to rent these flats out?

the other reason my parents didn't buy one is there were rules about visitors, understandably. Tbh the real attraction for me is the fact it would be childfree and fully managed.

i haven't looked to see what happens if you need a carer to move in.

Personally I agree that for those that can afford it, they sound like a good option.

They just need to alter the way the service charges work on death IMO.

Perhaps monthly service charges could accrue but be paid as a lump sum out of the sale price (hopefully it would cover them but if not that would be terrible!)

Or perhaps they should have a buy back scheme where they purchase the flats back at the end (for less than was paid), redecorate them and sell them as new. This seems like the best option TBH.

I'd have thought he'd have been relieved the money was well spent keeping her safe and comfortable. What else was it primarily for?Where do you think the money should have come from? Not other taxpayers surely, just so family can receive a tidy inheritance?!

Getting management approval and fees for tenants is standard in all communal flats where you don't own the freehold. Well of course they would have to be over 60 - isn't that the point of the thing?

Definitely much worse if you buy them new, but "second hand" is not so bad as long as you get one that's slightly distinctive vs the rest in the block, and don't expect to make any money on it. They can be ideal for their target audience, and the M&S ones are (in my experience) quite a lot nicer than many others.

My relative is in a similar place to this. Different management company. It’s a nightmare. Service charges go up every single year, and is now 30% of her income. On top of that she has to pay her electric, water and Council tax, phone bill, and tv license. She was shipped off there by relatives when my grandad died so that the relatives could have her house. I will be lumbered with it when she passes away, which sounds horrible to say, but it is so true. They don’t even have a warden at the moment but there is no decrease in service charges. They actually want more money out of the residents to pay for the wardens flat to be developed, even though there isn’t going to be a new warden!

the only communal service is a laundry room which the residents are only allowed to use for a certain amount of time/number of loads per week.

This is an interesting read. It took three years to sell my mum's M&S flat and I felt I could not properly mourn her until I got rid of it. However, she was lonely in her previous home and was very happy in the new place, briefly, until her health failed suddenly. In hindsight she was too old to invest in one. Everybody’s health fails at some point and we don’t have a crystal ball. These places are not nursing homes and you need to buy into extra care if required or move. Buyer beware.

I agree. The service charges go up and up and the flats depreciate. My mum is one and it works for her now but the services are not deamless and great. The employee is crap at their job for instance.

What would be better would be to sell or rent out what ever home you had before, invest it and rent the retirement flat so you never own the thing.

There’s a new M & S development where I live. £360,000 for a one bedroom flat. There’s an older M & S development, five mins up the road in a nicer location. You can get a one bed for as low as £160,000 there. Crazy difference in price!

Interesting. Both my Mum and Aunt have chosen this type of home when they downsized and both love them. Neither are M&S but the same principle. During lockdown it was a Godsend. Just the right mix of help when needed or wanted but essentially independent. They certainly aren't a cheap option, but the stress of selling later isn't theirs so although it may be a hassle at that point I think that on balance it is worth it for the reassurance now.

There does need to be a middle ground. My mother's best friend has been in one of these for over twenty years. She has been so happy. The difference between her and my mother when they were both in their seventies/early eighties was marked. Friend had quiz nights and film showings and coaches to the nearest large town for shopping trips. There were theatre trips and cards nights and if she wasn't up to cooking there was a dining room.

Mum was trapped really as she couldn't drive and whilst that wasn't a problem when she was sixty it became huge when she was seventy as she couldn't get to the shops or anywhere really without a lift. (Public transport was impossible due to her physical limitations at that stage).

Mum became isolated. Struggled with the cleaning of her house, struggled with the maintenance, got scammed by a "builder" who "repaired" her roof, was burgled.

When friend began to struggle there was help on hand. For mum we had to pay for drop in carers and rely on neighbours. I had to ring three times a day and drive over to check she hadn't fallen.

So - the lifestyle model is perfect. Sadly the financial set up is terrible and the huge overseas investment companies make the money.