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175k am I bonkers? Pricing a potential renovation....how??!

111 replies

Greenlife1 · 09/11/2022 21:34

Might be being a right wally but how do people figure out how much money they need for a house that needs a shit tonne of work doing?!

Been looking for AGES. A house has come up in the (very small search) area we are looking at. It is 3 bed and we need 4. It is a 1960s dream. Nothings been done to it in the last 60 years apart from a newish conservatory and a little extension.

We would need to fit in a new bedroom so that could mean either a loft conversion or extension to the 2nd floor (not sure if planning would be given for the 2nd floor extension tho) would also need a little extension downstairs (possibly possible through PD).

Would like to move kitchen into the extension once we've built it. The kitchen would need to be redone. Would like to move and open up the staircase as it's really dark and awkward. Would like to make the integrated garage an office/ utility space.

I imagine it needs new boiler and rewiring.

The bathrooms need doing but they could wait or we could do them on the cheap.

Everything would need plastering once sorted and new flooring too!

I think we would have about 175k to spend if we got it for the price we would offer.

Any ideas how I can price this up for a very rough guide?!

Thanks x

OP posts:
Yellownotblue · 09/11/2022 23:42

If I were you I’d double that budget. Then add at least another £100k. Maybe more. If nothing has been done in 60 years, you will need new roof (costly), new glazing (very costly - think 40k+ if you want good quality, patio doors etc), insulation, energy efficiency. Conservatories are out of fashion so you will want a proper extension instead. This means new foundations etc.

converting garage: 30k+
new kitchen : 30k (more for high end)
new bathrooms: 10k each
flooring :10k-20k plus installation

This is before loft conversion (150k) and ground floor extension (100k).

Plus redecorating, wiring, plumbing. Lighting costs a bomb. Joinery even more.

175k isn’t going to touch the sides. Sorry.

ShopoholicIn · 09/11/2022 23:46

We got our lift conversion with 2 en-suites extension downstairs and redoing the kitchen with opening it up, all done on less than that budget.
What sq footage upstairs are you looking at? I agree you need to have more than what the builders quote you at least 25% more comfortably. Ideally 50% if things go awry since its old build.

Eastangular2000 · 09/11/2022 23:49

Yellownotblue · 09/11/2022 23:42

If I were you I’d double that budget. Then add at least another £100k. Maybe more. If nothing has been done in 60 years, you will need new roof (costly), new glazing (very costly - think 40k+ if you want good quality, patio doors etc), insulation, energy efficiency. Conservatories are out of fashion so you will want a proper extension instead. This means new foundations etc.

converting garage: 30k+
new kitchen : 30k (more for high end)
new bathrooms: 10k each
flooring :10k-20k plus installation

This is before loft conversion (150k) and ground floor extension (100k).

Plus redecorating, wiring, plumbing. Lighting costs a bomb. Joinery even more.

175k isn’t going to touch the sides. Sorry.

This is a ridiculous post. You certainly don't need 450K to refurb a 60s house. No reason at all you can't do most of the work for the budget you have in mind. If it's already 3 storeys a lost might be tricky. Moving the stairs is likely to be quite pricey but you might find with some imagination there is a work around. You certainly don't need 30K for a kitchen or 10K per bathroom! And unless you are buying a mansion 20K for flooring without installation is completely absurd. You would be able to do the vast majority of what you are looking at for 175k!

FurnitureDisease · 09/11/2022 23:52

Agree with PP, @Yellownotblue prices at the somewhat pricey to extreme ends there.

Depending on where the property is and how high end materials you are talking, 175k is absolutely achievable

I have experience in this field

Yellownotblue · 10/11/2022 00:15

Happy to stand corrected. But do pop over to the Extensions thread for a reality check. You need to be prepared for contingencies. Loads of us have seen budgets double over the course of the project.

FWIW, our kitchen is not high end or bespoke, but cabinets came to 25k, worktops 8k, sink/tap/appliances 9k. I will admit it’s large, but not luxurious. Neff/Samsung appliances rather than subzero/gaggenau.

A bathroom for £10k is not a luxury bathroom - we’re talking Tap warehouse or such like for sinks, baths and toilets, Topps tiles or Mandarin stone for tiles, and cheap vanities. A vanity mirror cabinet costs at least £400. Yes you can source cheaper ones for £200 (we did for the kids’ bathroom), but they won’t look very nice. Taps, regulators and showers are expensive.

I don’t enjoy spending money and I wish our project had been much cheaper. But there is a huge amount of lowballing on MN and in the building trade, and that won’t help OP.

You also need to factor in architect fees, structural engineers, planning applications, party wall surveyor, building regs inspections. These will also add up.

Eastangular2000 · 10/11/2022 00:18

Yellownotblue · 10/11/2022 00:15

Happy to stand corrected. But do pop over to the Extensions thread for a reality check. You need to be prepared for contingencies. Loads of us have seen budgets double over the course of the project.

FWIW, our kitchen is not high end or bespoke, but cabinets came to 25k, worktops 8k, sink/tap/appliances 9k. I will admit it’s large, but not luxurious. Neff/Samsung appliances rather than subzero/gaggenau.

A bathroom for £10k is not a luxury bathroom - we’re talking Tap warehouse or such like for sinks, baths and toilets, Topps tiles or Mandarin stone for tiles, and cheap vanities. A vanity mirror cabinet costs at least £400. Yes you can source cheaper ones for £200 (we did for the kids’ bathroom), but they won’t look very nice. Taps, regulators and showers are expensive.

I don’t enjoy spending money and I wish our project had been much cheaper. But there is a huge amount of lowballing on MN and in the building trade, and that won’t help OP.

You also need to factor in architect fees, structural engineers, planning applications, party wall surveyor, building regs inspections. These will also add up.

I have seen some of your posts and TBH it sounds like someone saw you coming. 25K for cabinets is entirely unnecessary for a kitchen as is 8k for worktops. You say you don't like spending money, it rather sounds like you are not spending the money you do have wisely.

Yellownotblue · 10/11/2022 00:41

Why do you feel the need to be so rude? You have your taste and I have mine. I think the mirror cabinets you posted are flawed, I wouldn’t want them in my house. We had builders falling over themselves to tender for my project, so I know that we paid market rates. Not everyone is happy to go for the cheapest looking everything. Good on you if you do. I am quite passionate about design, so while I’m willing to compromise on some things, I also feel strongly about form and function. I only offered my views. You can disagree without being disparaging.

As for spending my money wisely - I’m astonished you can make that call, given you don’t know me or my financial situation.

Volterra · 10/11/2022 06:04

I think it is doable on your budget OP. Ask around people you know and get recommendations for builders and run it past a couple, it depends where you are. Loft conversions are about 60k where I am and a friend is looking at an extension and kitchen and quotes coming in about 40k.

We’ve just moved and are starting a renovation when I can face it. Only got as far as quotes for some windows we need doing but that comes in about 4k for triple glazed 6 windows (3 are a bay window). I did run rewire costs past our electrician when we were looking at a different house and he said about 6k up to 8 or 9k for a 3 bed.

My top tip is if you have an expensive car move it around the corner. Friend was getting quotes for 60k for an extension. I had told her to move the cars, she eventually did and next quote came in at 40k. They went with him and their mate did the glazing. The builder didn’t realise they knew him well and was saying he was going to charge extra as he had seen the cars. My landscaper will admit that he prices differently depending on what he thinks he can get away with. He likes working for me and knows I pay the second he invoices so I get a sensible price.

Also if you are prepared and able to put in some time sourcing things there are some second hand bargains to be had. I found the perfect fire surround for £50 including delivery recently and just needs a coat of paint.

walsk · 10/11/2022 06:17

Yellownotblue · 10/11/2022 00:41

Why do you feel the need to be so rude? You have your taste and I have mine. I think the mirror cabinets you posted are flawed, I wouldn’t want them in my house. We had builders falling over themselves to tender for my project, so I know that we paid market rates. Not everyone is happy to go for the cheapest looking everything. Good on you if you do. I am quite passionate about design, so while I’m willing to compromise on some things, I also feel strongly about form and function. I only offered my views. You can disagree without being disparaging.

As for spending my money wisely - I’m astonished you can make that call, given you don’t know me or my financial situation.

I think you were quite rude to be honest. The OP didn't ask you to design her house.

OP last year I had an existing bathroom redone, a new bathroom added, remodelling of 2 rooms and a corridor and everything involved re-plastered with new flooring for £25,000.

I would select the things most important to you and get quotes for those first. I would also make sure you are getting a fully itemised quote with everything on so you know exactly where additional costs are coming from if they arise.

If you can't everything done at once can you save some more and have it done in a few years?

Paq · 10/11/2022 06:18

Yes it's doable. Plan. Research. Look for ways to cut your costs. You can get stuff off Facebook marketplace and suchlike (I got a whole en suite from the local paper's small ads once for about £100 as the people bought it and decided they didn't like it but couldn't return it).

Also, brush up your own diy skills. Don't try electricals but decorating, laying lino etc is within most peoples abilities.

Paq · 10/11/2022 06:21

Oh, and we converted a garage for £8k in 2020. DH did most of the work. Just make sure you speak to building control to make sure you comply with requirements. It usually doesn't need PP.

Era · 10/11/2022 06:22

Doable but tight and you’d not have a contingency in that figure. Building is crazy atm. Ours has gone enormously over budget for no reason other than supply and demand. Prices are sky high, labour is in short supply, items take weeks/months to be in stock which causes delay which increases costs etc. Be prepared for 50 percent on top of what it ought to cost.

Kingstonmumof1 · 10/11/2022 06:26

Depends where the house is, prices seem to vary all over the country. Also be mindful of the shortage of materials, this can put projects on pause for months and months as work needs to be done in the right order.

ProperVexed · 10/11/2022 06:26

Under no circumstances watch Homes Under the Hammer. Most people on that programme can build an extension, put in new kitchen, bathroom, windows, heating electrics, garden, etc, and still have change from £10,000. Drives me mad.

Era · 10/11/2022 06:31

Our renovation is still not complete. It was started at the beginning of 2021. We waited months and months for the solar panels. Three months for windows, there was difficulty getting doors for months, lighting is still tricky. Thus all then has a knock on effect on price, builders go off and start other things because they are waiting, scaffolding costs quadruple etc

yes of course there are lights/doors/ windows available in B&Q but if you’re doing an upscale project and want something in particular then be prepared for long waits on things or to pay over the odds.

FurnitureDisease · 10/11/2022 06:45

Like I said, experience in the area, for many many years.

Without outing, I myself am both a designer and in survey and planning, and family members are the architects, builders and trades.

We span across London / Home Counties and in areas where COL is much less.

Both @Yellownotblue and @Eastangular2000 are correct, though it appears different viewpoints.

Sorry East, it’s not “bullshit” or “saw them coming”, that’s simply what Yellow wanted and was happy to pay.

Yellow is correct that costs can, and do, spiral. But, respectfully, a subset of people on MN is just that.
Not everyone lowballs or has costs unexpectedly go through the roof.
Some do.

There will, however, ALWAYS be some level of unexpected extra costs, it’s completely unavoidable.

Usually over-run timescales as well, though that’s a different topic.

There’s also a lot of variables we don’t know here eg. location of property and personal views on brands, product styles etc.

Could you do a homes under the hammer jobby with £5 psqm carpet and have it look shit? Yes.
Could you go all out and spend your fortunes? Yes.
That could equally look shit FWIW, if it doesn’t suit the character of the surrounding area or style of the property.

So many variables.

To get an accurate quote for building works and renovations get numerous firms in. Bare minimum 3 quotes, more ideally.
Some can do everything “in house” as it were, some will do only parts of what you need and it can get complicated logistically marrying up the different trades.

Half you call for estimates won’t turn up.
You’ll get some out-price you as they don’t want to do it, but can’t say that.
Some will be cheap. That’s never good.
If someone has a short / no waiting list, it’s because they are crap.
”Mates Rates” / family can be problematic.
You'll get a massive price range, with tens of Ks difference in prices.

Ask neighbours and friends who may have had work done so you can nose at standard and style of work etc.

Price ultimately depends on what level and quality of products you want, scope of building works and materials needed, how much, if any, work you can, or want, to do yourself, the area you live in etc.

FWIW Yellows kitchen clearly has stone / solid surface worktops and for 9k appliances in the Neff / mid range is going to include a specific set of items.
25k of cabinets is a large size and not going to be of the flat-packed variety.
This is why it’s those sort of prices, absolutely not unusual.

You could go way higher with the likes of Wolf, Subzero, Miele, bespoke cabinets.
You could do for much less with your Hotpoint, Indesit, CDA, laminate worktops, flat-packed.

You could have own brand paint, or Farrow & Ball.
Ceramic tiles, or natural stone.

You get the idea.

OP, first start with the bits you can’t control because you NEED the professionals - build costs, architects, surveyors etc.

The rest can be negotiated / compromised accordingly as they are wants / nice to haves.

Hope this helps a little.

mobear · 10/11/2022 06:57

As a pp said, it will matter where the house is.

Bumzoo · 10/11/2022 07:00

FurnitureDisease · 10/11/2022 06:45

Like I said, experience in the area, for many many years.

Without outing, I myself am both a designer and in survey and planning, and family members are the architects, builders and trades.

We span across London / Home Counties and in areas where COL is much less.

Both @Yellownotblue and @Eastangular2000 are correct, though it appears different viewpoints.

Sorry East, it’s not “bullshit” or “saw them coming”, that’s simply what Yellow wanted and was happy to pay.

Yellow is correct that costs can, and do, spiral. But, respectfully, a subset of people on MN is just that.
Not everyone lowballs or has costs unexpectedly go through the roof.
Some do.

There will, however, ALWAYS be some level of unexpected extra costs, it’s completely unavoidable.

Usually over-run timescales as well, though that’s a different topic.

There’s also a lot of variables we don’t know here eg. location of property and personal views on brands, product styles etc.

Could you do a homes under the hammer jobby with £5 psqm carpet and have it look shit? Yes.
Could you go all out and spend your fortunes? Yes.
That could equally look shit FWIW, if it doesn’t suit the character of the surrounding area or style of the property.

So many variables.

To get an accurate quote for building works and renovations get numerous firms in. Bare minimum 3 quotes, more ideally.
Some can do everything “in house” as it were, some will do only parts of what you need and it can get complicated logistically marrying up the different trades.

Half you call for estimates won’t turn up.
You’ll get some out-price you as they don’t want to do it, but can’t say that.
Some will be cheap. That’s never good.
If someone has a short / no waiting list, it’s because they are crap.
”Mates Rates” / family can be problematic.
You'll get a massive price range, with tens of Ks difference in prices.

Ask neighbours and friends who may have had work done so you can nose at standard and style of work etc.

Price ultimately depends on what level and quality of products you want, scope of building works and materials needed, how much, if any, work you can, or want, to do yourself, the area you live in etc.

FWIW Yellows kitchen clearly has stone / solid surface worktops and for 9k appliances in the Neff / mid range is going to include a specific set of items.
25k of cabinets is a large size and not going to be of the flat-packed variety.
This is why it’s those sort of prices, absolutely not unusual.

You could go way higher with the likes of Wolf, Subzero, Miele, bespoke cabinets.
You could do for much less with your Hotpoint, Indesit, CDA, laminate worktops, flat-packed.

You could have own brand paint, or Farrow & Ball.
Ceramic tiles, or natural stone.

You get the idea.

OP, first start with the bits you can’t control because you NEED the professionals - build costs, architects, surveyors etc.

The rest can be negotiated / compromised accordingly as they are wants / nice to haves.

Hope this helps a little.

This is a great post.

Good luck if you go for it OP, sounds like it's got lots of potential.

WhatsErFace2020 · 10/11/2022 07:02

Volterra · 10/11/2022 06:04

I think it is doable on your budget OP. Ask around people you know and get recommendations for builders and run it past a couple, it depends where you are. Loft conversions are about 60k where I am and a friend is looking at an extension and kitchen and quotes coming in about 40k.

We’ve just moved and are starting a renovation when I can face it. Only got as far as quotes for some windows we need doing but that comes in about 4k for triple glazed 6 windows (3 are a bay window). I did run rewire costs past our electrician when we were looking at a different house and he said about 6k up to 8 or 9k for a 3 bed.

My top tip is if you have an expensive car move it around the corner. Friend was getting quotes for 60k for an extension. I had told her to move the cars, she eventually did and next quote came in at 40k. They went with him and their mate did the glazing. The builder didn’t realise they knew him well and was saying he was going to charge extra as he had seen the cars. My landscaper will admit that he prices differently depending on what he thinks he can get away with. He likes working for me and knows I pay the second he invoices so I get a sensible price.

Also if you are prepared and able to put in some time sourcing things there are some second hand bargains to be had. I found the perfect fire surround for £50 including delivery recently and just needs a coat of paint.

@Volterra - we were told this too. Renovating the most run down house in a very lovely street full of gorgeous houses. Our neighbours car is some 150k sporty thing and we were told by our tradie friend we’d end up being over quoted for everything as they look around and quote what they think you can afford. Twas an eye opener. Wouldnt be so bad but we’ve got shit cars 😂

@Greenlife1 - weve managed to do electrics/2 bathrooms/replaster/recarpet/Redecorate everywhere/some garden work/new kitchen and utility for less than your budget so it is doable but has been really stressful and not half as fun as I thought it would be.

FurnitureDisease · 10/11/2022 07:03

@ProperVexed im so glad somebody else mentioned homes under the hammer.

It puts hell into me that programme.

I watch it for the bants and invariably end up fuming as the quality is always so poor, and the purchaser usually doesn’t care what rubbish they put in as long as it sells to some poor unsuspecting soul.

I love it where they buy it thinking they can do it all for a fiver then it shows them 2 years down the line and it’s all still in bits.

However, then of course it’s just sat there wasting away in the name of profits when it could have been a much needed home for somebody etc.

Ironically for someone “in the trade” as it were, I ended up with one of these bullshit houses that some unscrupulous sorts cobbled together 😂

FurnitureDisease · 10/11/2022 07:20

@Bumzoo thank you.

Interesting points from the PPs about the cars etc.

I dare say that sort of thing definitely does go on.

It’s still, many years down the line, a point of great mirth amongst our work group that some guy in a suit and hat once robbed a full Neff slide & hide oven out of a kitchen showroom.

Nobody thought he might be suspicious, or enough of the great unwashed, to keep an eye on 😂

To this day no idea how he managed it

RidingMyBike · 10/11/2022 07:24

Probably doable. We're mid-renovation at the moment - not extending as it's already been done. Technically a six bed although some of that is estate agent hyperbole.

Replacing the staircase to loft (as not to building regs and terrible!) about £9k.
Full rewire about £10k
Kitchen £6k (units, sink only. Flooring, tiles and labour etc. No island. Howdens mid-range)
Utility room £2k
Replace all windows and all but front door about £10k.
Bathrooms will vary depending on whether it's a simple replacement or you're moving soil pipes and other plumbing.

Volterra · 10/11/2022 07:31

@WhatsErFace2020 that makes it harder. Leave the cars on the drive and when you get people round say you are on a seriously tight budget and don’t think it will be possible to do what you want to do on your budget so fully expect not to be able to do it and fully expect to have to have to leave it for years ,say the speed of the economic down turn totally took you by surprise and you are the poor relations amongst neighbours . Keep stressing very tight budget.

We had someone take a scrap washing machine recently and offered £150 for our car as thought that was scrap too 😀We’ve changed it now so are in the put it around the corner situation. I was quite emotional saying goodbye to last car, much more than the last house! A real workhorse that did many a tip run and took 5 loads of roof tiles 1.5 hour round trip so extension blended in with main house.

Just thought of another example of silly pricing. Friend’s DH quoted for extension roof , 33k. Builder ended up doing it for 12k. Definitely ask around for recommendations.

Greenlife1 · 10/11/2022 07:42

Not going to be spending 30+ k on kitchen. Been there Done that and so not worth it! We would actually keep the conservatory as it's a really cute one, don't usually like them though so I see why you would think that.

Big space, only need a small extension.

We do all decorating.

OP posts: