Is a 3 bed flat in St Albans a bad idea?

[onlychildhamster]

Firstly a lot of people on this thread are probably going to tell me to go for a house with garden rather than a flat? But I have always prioritized location and the houses in the areas I am interested in (Hampstead Garden Suburb, East Finchley, Muswell Hill and St Albans) are very expensive unless they are very small and as I am not a very outdoorsy kind of person, I need indoor space rather than outdoor space. Furthermore houses usually carry a premium which far exceeds the service charges (I currently own a 2 bed flat and the service charges are around £150 per month which I find ok; a house in my area the same size on the other hand would be 200k more)

I would like a third bedroom as a home office and hence I am in the market for a 3 bed. I really love London but i haven't found many nice 3 bed flats in my local area (east finchley/hampstead garden suburb) and Muswell hill is very expensive.

I found this lovely flat here: www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/115501745#/floorplan?activePlan=1&channel=RES_BUY

my DH is very fixed on being in zone 3 (and like me, doesn't mind flats) . But Muswell Hill is very buzzy and well connected to London so in a sense, even though I am a diehard londoner, I don't feel that bad moving there as I know that if I am willing to pay the transport costs, its quite easy to get back to London (judging from the number of times my DH has 'accidentally' ended up in St A when boarding a thameslink train from blackfriars!). For my first property, I did look at St Albans but it wasn't that much cheaper for a 2 bed flat as compared to London zone 3 + transport costs. However, it makes more sense when you look at bigger flats which carry a much higher price premium in London.

i mean this well, but please don't suggest I move to Hitchin/Bedford/cheaper location where I can get a house. It will take me an age to persuade DH about St Albans, never mind Bedford! When we bought our flat, DH wanted to live in zone 2, I managed to persuade him about zone 3 and that was an uphill task! While zone 4-6 would geographically be closer than St Albans, I find that St Albans has a more vibrant town scene and faster rail links to the city (the con is that the transport costs are higher); but overall feels more 'city-like'.

We don't have a car and don't plan to get one so we need a place that is walkable to the station. We are planning for a child in a few years, and where I come from, 95% of children grew up in flats and while I did have outside space, my father had extended the house to such an extent that we only had a patch of grass at the front so my DH doesn't even consider it a garden and it certainly isn't big enough to play in!

Oops posted too soon- i guess there would be less demand for flats in the Home counties as opposed to London, where even if there isn't demand for flats to live in, I don't foresee many renters leaving London (most of my colleagues rent and they all rent in London). So there would still be demand for BTL flats, i think.

And another dimension is family. my DH's mum doesn't drive either (and she is 58 so the chance of her ever driving is nil). She lives in Hendon which is quite handy for St A. I want to live in a place where she would be comfortable coming over and where it would be easy for us to visit her as we see each other every weekend.

I think that if you are happy to live in a flat, then it is a good idea. You seem to have thought of everything.

The main downsides are the commuting costs (it would be better to put the extra costs of commuting on a property rather than given them to the train company, but you can't do that if you can't afford a property nearer to London in the first place) and also the service charge.

The main problem with St A is the traffic, but if you don't have a car, then it is perfect.

Most people don't want to bring up a family in a flat, so if you do, then you should get a bargain compared to a house.

@ILoveAllRainbowsx the word 'afford' is loaded. I mean I can afford a flat in London, its just a 2 bed! I mean if a 3 bed in Muswell Hill and a 3 bed in St Albans were the same price, I suppose it would make better sense to choose MH but the thing is MH is like 200k more for a 3 bed (and that is being conservative; plus only looking at properties with 3 proper bedrooms).

@ILoveAllRainbowsx a lot of the houses that people seem to raise children in are 2 up 2 down (though maybe most would have moved on since then). there is nothing wrong with it, but its smaller than my ideal flat.

I have never raised a child in the UK before, but when I was growing up, my parents took me to the playground and walking in the reservoirs and nature reserves. We lived next to a playground/park so I have never played in my garden- the playground was my garden and was a lot more fun with a sandpit and climbing frame. my dad even joined the neighbourhood committee to make the park nicer.

Verulamium Park seems quite lovely and big enough. Right now, my local stomping ground is Cherry Tree Woods/Highgate Woods.

Urgh DH keeps telling me that he would only want to move to St Albans when he is retired. I think retirement is quite far off given he is 31. I guess it makes sense given that he is going to the office practically everyday.

I guess we just need to save more and hope more people move to the Home Counties instead of MH.

If you're planning on having dc in the next few years, I'd think carefully about how you'll manage living somewhere with kids far from the office and from family, if you will both be working in central London. Probably you'd use schools/childcare in St Albans rather than near work, but if there are issues like having to pick up due to illness etc, it's harder when you're further away. Transport issues like train cancellations can make pickups difficult if the only alternative is a long bus ride or taxi home. It's also nice to be close to the school for events/meetings at primary school. Of course lots of families do it (live in suburbs and work in central London), although often one parent ends up working more locally/wfh once they have young dc.

I don't think there's any problem with raising dc in a flat per se, it's something I've done in London. The main issues are things like neighbour noise, but you will get that in terraced houses too. To an extent I can understand your DH's pov, I'm a born and bred Londoner and would never want to leave. Even though it's very fast to get back into London, your world tends to shrink a bit when you have young dc, and you wouldn't spend that much time in London outside of work when you factor in the cost of travel, committing to weekend activities and doing playdates which you can only do at weekends because you're working in London all week. At least that's what I've noticed from friends who have moved out. So I prefer to live in London itself, because it doesn't feel like a big journey to go to the West End or South Ken, whereas I think it would from the Home Counties.

@molarblack very good points. My DH is/was hoping to use his mum for help with childcare which is why we initially bought in London. And yes we both have jobs in London. His mum has always WFH and will never leave London (primarily for religious reasons and she doesn't need to anyway as she bought in 1997). But as time goes by, I am not sure how often we will rely on her anyway, I couldn't even get her to come to my house to feed my hamster when we were on holiday (as she had this idea she needed to walk from her house to mine?!). I mean, I still want to live near her as I want my DC to have a close relationship with grandma and DH is close to his mum so we would never be the kind of family which only sees Grandma at Christmas or something.

But you are right that London would be better from a childcare/commuting POV. I am keen to keep working full time after having children (like every woman in my family) for independence and mental health reasons so I guess retaining easy links to central london is key to that. I thought St Albans was different from a lot of the commuter towns as the journey is shorter. I mean its different from places like beaconsfield or guildford which is much further!

Wow, very spacious! And as a Londoner, have to say very well priced too!

It says share of Freehold, the one thing I might be concerned about is the building’s condition. I’m referring to the outside walkway areas, they look like they’re in need of work and safety upgrades. Might be pricey charges up ahead if they don’t have a good sinking fund?

If you need 2 bedrooms plus a home office, it might be worth widening your searches to 2 bedrooms in London with an extra space, rather than strictly 3 beds? Might get it in budget that way

Hmm, interesting dilemma. That is a good location and it is an easy walk to the station. You can also walk down to Verulamium from there (which gets super busy at the weekends so good not to drive). Good schools and loads of young families in St A so you would have a nice social life. It's a popular place to live so you would retain your house value and it would be a good investment.

The Thameslink is quick (20 mins to St P) - when it runs! It is often up the creek (but not sure how often to be frustrating if you are commuting) and is expensive. (You can use contactless now though which is useful for occasional visits - so if London friends and family come for e.g.)

I can see why you are tempted tbh.

@Flowers500 Yes that is worth looking into! my building's interiors wasn't in great condition when I bought it too but they are doing works now and the sink fund will cover it. They had all these plans when I bought.

Yes I am open to 2 beds with an extra space. But given that i have to pay stamp duty, mentally, i feel like I can justify the move better if I was gaining a whole other room. Its why my DH is against getting a 2 up 2 down, to him it isn't an upgrade as we are only gaining a garden and while its nice to have, its not as useful as a third bedroom.

(Just have a look at parking though coz that might affect resale value? People love a parking space. And it is v near the high school I think. Lots of Chelsea tractor traffic.)

Nice flat but those walkways look in poor condition, and I think the upper floors must have right of way to traipse right through past the lower floors' doors.

Not sure I'd be OK with that.

Yes agreed—a 2 up 2 down is likely to actually lose you space!

One idea could be to look for a flat in your (close to ideal) location that is a bit tired, needs a new kitchen and bathroom in a few years but has the extra bedroom, if the issue is just your ability to borrow enough to cover a bigger place. Like a 575k flat but it’s on at 510k because it needs total refreshing. Then you can do it up in bits, like new kitchen when you can afford it, new bathroom when you can, etc. Would mean a bit of a sacrifice on style in the short-medium term but get you best of both worlds, and with promotions funds for improvements should be easy?

Good flat in a good area, just off the main shopping street, so you can walk to the station and shops. Good GP surgery in same road and another good one across the road, several good primary schools within walking distance. If you are planning on having childre, carrying them and their pram, plus shopping, to the top floor could be a struggle. In some blocks you are not allowed to leave prams/buggies in the communal areas. If you have two children, getting to the top floor will be even harder. Certainly a good place to live, but you would need to think if it could meet your needs in the longer term

@missminimum this flat is on the ground floor! I am planning on one and well we will be carrying our prams around when on london transport anyway. DH has promised me that he will carry the pram up for me (so if I get back in the day, I can leave it there for a few hours until he gets home). My block doesn't allow buggies in the communal hallways either, but generally people only complain when its left permanently out there.

I imagine you might miss having a car more in St Albans than you do in London. So would think about public transport within the area / buses as well as proximity for the station for getting to London. If you have kids I’m sure there will other local amenities you’ll want to get to and bring on foot might not always be possible. I say this as a fellow non-driver - I don’t find not driving to be a problem at all in London but when I visit family elsewhere, we even in towns with decent public transport, it can be awkward as people tend to drive and suggest meeting in places that depend on getting there by car.

@StillTryingtoBuy interesting. I thought St Albans has a pretty good bus system. its more expensive though. I remember once taking a Uber to st albans from hendon, and it wasn't too bad.

When I was living in London zone 2/3 and working in central London, my commuting time actually reduced by moving out to St Albans into Blackfriars.

I've moved even further away now to get a big detached house. If I could afford my current house, but in St A I would move back tomorrow

@BarstewardofNorthstead yes it is very quick. DH now works in canary wharf though but its still ok. I work near city thameslink.

The trouble you've got is, if your husband doesn't want to move to St Albans, you can't make him move to St Albans.

Have you done the spend-a-weekend-there-and-see-how-you-find-it dance? That tends to either kill or cure locations as viable living options, in my experience.

St Albans is one of those places that's either very much your thing or it very much isn't.

@NightmareSlashDelightful my DH didn't want to buy property either and he also wanted to live in zone 2. The thing is, we couldn't really afford a 2 bed in zone 2 with a 400k budget in 2019 (at least not in a nice area anyway) and he has only ever lived in zone 3 so it wasn't terribly hard to persuade him when taking all these into consideration.

He likes St Albans, we have often spent nights there. But I think liking a place is different from living there. He also likes Shrewsbury and Bath and Orkney but I don't think it would be a good idea for us to live in any of these places!

His argument is that he works in London and he can't see himself working in St Albans (he works in banking) so why wouldn't he live in London? Of course I know a lot of people in the UK have a different mindset- they commute to a city but would want to live somewhere more 'idyllic' but my DH is not one of them.

The commute to Barking from St Albans would be dreadful, especially every day. Honestly, I think that rules St Albans out for you.

We are about to downsize to a flat with no outdoor space with three kids and three dogs, so no objections in that front!

@MrsBobDylan my DH doesn't work in barking, he works in canary wharf! :)