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Should we ignore our solicitor's advice?

92 replies

ConfusedHouseBuyer · 07/06/2021 21:39

We're buying a house for the first time, and we get the impression that the vendor's solicitor (and thus the vendor) is getting very irritated with our solicitor's thoroughness. He sent of the order of 50 enquiries, and though the vendor's solicitor has been pretty lax in his responses, our solicitor does seem to be repeatedly asking about things that, as far as we can tell, don't matter that much (e.g. requesting planning notices when we've already been provided with completion certificates, and requesting historical conveyances from the mid-1900s).

There are a couple of things that have given us pause, such as an old loft conversion that is not "habitable" by today's standards and was (apparently incorrectly) advertised as a bedroom (though it complied with regulations at the time, so perhaps it's actually fine?). There is also a first floor-level terrace with no documentation, as it was apparently there when the current owners moved in, which is likely not allowed according to current regulations, and may not have even been allowed at the time (we just don't know). But since it's been there for many years, and pre-dates the current owners, would the lack of documentation be a big issue here? It wasn't the reason we chose the house.

Our solicitor is recommending that we try to knock ~4% off the agreed price, on the basis that the house was over-valued by treating the loft conversion as a bedroom, and that there are a few things without complete documentation. But we're really unsure this would be sensible in the current climate, or even if it's reasonable given the circumstances. Are the things I've described the sort that would drive others to negotiate?

He is also saying he expects prices to drop significantly in the relatively near term, and that he thinks we're overpaying on this place, given the issues mentioned above (though we're wondering if we'd encounter these sorts of things in any older house?).

We have no prior experience of this sort of thing, so we don't know what is normal or expected. But the estate agent has told us that he thinks the vendor is more likely to pull out of the sale than negotiate at this point — especially as they feel they've already been asked too many questions. Of course he might just be saying that because it's in his interest to do so, but it seems risky to test it.

I think I just want to understand what is reasonable here. Would you expect to be able to negotiate based on the things mentioned above? Is our solicitor being overzealous? Do most people go ahead with purchases at the original agreed price, even when there are question marks around building regulations compliance of work from decades ago? It seems that our solicitor wants to leave no stone unturned, and nothing unaccounted for, which ordinarily I'd say was a good thing, but I'm wondering if that's realistic here, and if we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot by taking the same approach.

OP posts:
ConfusedHouseBuyer · 08/06/2021 13:13

@Bythemillpond Regarding the loft, the surveyor said that there was evidence of "significant movement" in the floor, but then we had a couple of builders in (to ask if we'd need to redo the floor, costs etc.), and they basically said no, it's fine, seems solid, been up there for years and not going anywhere. Who would you be more inclined to trust?

OP posts:
CovidCorvid · 08/06/2021 14:16

I'd trust the builders. Surveyors cover their arse big time

MadMadMadamMim · 08/06/2021 15:59

Personally I'd trust the advice of random strangers on an anonymous internet forum.

That's always the wisest idea. Wink

You only seem to want to listen to people confirming your own preferred opinion. Even though you have absolutely no idea as to how much knowledge (if any) these people have of buying houses.

AdjustableAssholeSettings · 08/06/2021 16:07

If he's being so thorough for a fixed price, it sounds like he's being very useful rather than trying to get money out of you.
He's on your side, ignore at your peril.

Melitza · 08/06/2021 16:16

@Bythemillpond if there weren't any issues the OP wouldn't be posting on here.
Yes, the conversion complied at the time but the solicitor thinks it makes the house a 3 bed.
I have a friend who went through this exact problem after her dm died.
Her dm had bought the house with the loft as a bedroom, the buyers on advice of their solicitors negotiated the price down.
It may not be an issue as regards safety but if the loft is not considered a proper bedroom then it could affect a resale in the future.

Bythemillpond · 08/06/2021 17:00

Melitza but the loft room is considered a proper bedroom and does have a letter from when it was done saying it complied with building regs.
What else wouldn’t make it a bedroom.
Building regs don’t run out or you have to do work on the room to bring it up to what ever the building regs change to each year.

Did your friend buy the house with building regs? Otherwise it isn’t the same. If your friend bought with out building regs then of course there would be a problem when she came to sell

ConfusedHouseBuyer when your surveyor said there was significant movement did he indicate what this meant?
Were there photos or could you see cracking

I know you have to have so called experts when you buy and sell but sometimes you have to take a lot of what they say with a punch of salt. They are only covering their own arses

My last house was a 300 year old thatched cottage. The surveyor my buyers got said in their report that as the cottage had no planning permission the council could insist it was demolished along with other gems such as it had been built with no foundations so could fall down at any minute.

The buyers then spent a small fortune on a structural survey. The guy came round
Jumped up and down on the living room floor, had a cup of tea where he laughed at the report from the previous surveyor and deemed that there wasn’t anything wrong with the place. (It had 7 foot thick walls and was deemed to be still standing if it took a direct hit from a nuclear bomb)

It is still standing now.

Bythemillpond · 08/06/2021 17:03

There are 2 separate issues.
The movement (if there is any) is down to the surveyor and can easily be sorted with a structural survey and that you might get some money off.

The separate issue is your solicitor who has got himself into a mire of questions that he says himself are not relevant.

YellowFish12 · 08/06/2021 17:04
  • Does the loft conversion have a fire door and the correct head room of 2.2m? These two points are important i think regardless of old regulations. If the head room is too low then no it's not a proper bedroom now imo.*

No it’s not, for the millionth time, that only applies if that was the building regs AT THE TIME OF CONSTRUCTION

Sporranrummager · 08/06/2021 18:53

@ConfusedHouseBuyer
If you are determined that this is the house you want you need to ask your solicitor whether any of the issues are a problem FOR YOUR LENDER .
some lenders won't lend on loft conversions that don't meet current guidelines, some won't lend on some types of outside work that is not signed off.
Just because the letter from the Council says something helpful doesn't mean the lender has to like it, and they are the ones buying it.
(It's always amazed me like some PPsbon this post think that it is up to them what is acceptable, not the body actually handing the cash over)

Kazzyhoward · 08/06/2021 19:02

@Wegobshite

Well if your paying extra money for something that was wrongly advertised as 4 bed when it’s a 3 bed with a dodgy & unusable loft conversion type bedroom then I think you’re solicitors correct . If when you tried to sell and you could only sell and advertise it as a 3 bed I’m sure you would be straight on the phone complaining that your solicitor didn’t spot this and that you paid for a 4 bed
Exactly this. If your solicitor wasn't thorough, and when YOU come to sell in a few years' time, your buyer's solicitor picks up building reg issues, etc., then you'd be complaining your solicitor wasn't thorough enough, wouldn't you, and maybe even think about suing your solicitor for not doing his job properly. That's what your solicitor is thinking, and hence why he's being thorough. A 50 question questionnaire is pretty standard, he may well be using the template one that most solicitors use and highly unlikely to have created his own. It's HIS job to ask questions and tell you of any potential issues - that's what you pay him for.
thegcatsmother · 08/06/2021 19:35

'If the loft didn't meet regs when it was put in (it needs to have been signed off) then you can be forced to either bring it up to current regs (likely to be £££) or ensure it can't be used as a "habital room" (remove stairs, electric lighting, plasterboards etc).'

As has been said depends if there were regs at the time. Our attic was converted into a room used as either a study/sewing room back in the 80s (when I was doing my A levels) by the previous owners. I managed to find what limited paperwork there was (and it was on microfiche) from the council, when we remortgaged, but it is just useful space.

Quite common on the continent, known as polyvalent rooms. The one in the last house we rented abroad was huge.

DoingItMyself · 08/06/2021 19:37

Believe your solicitor.

NoSquirrels · 08/06/2021 23:05

There are very few houses satisfying our non-negotiable requirements coming up at the moment, and if we have to wait, say, another year to find one, then that's an extra year we've spent in a location we don't like, and an extra year we've spent looking for houses. Surely the time cost is also relevant? Sure, it will be a pain if we have to spend money we didn't anticipate having to spend, but we have a bit of leeway, and I wonder if the overall (not just monetary) cost will be greater if we see this purely as an investment, rather than a home that we can live in.

This is fine. You can choose heart over head, you’ll be happy. As long as when you come to sell you realise you might be on the end of the annoying enquiries from a thorough solicitor.

Look - he’s said a load of stuff isn’t an issue. But that the loft and the terrace could be an issue. What is his legal solution to that? What are the legal consequences in the future of ignoring it?

That’s really all you need to know.

Bythemillpond · 10/06/2021 05:22

Believe your solicitor

Who has said a lot of the stuff he is asking is completely irrelevant.

I am wondering what exactly he wants. He has a letter from the council signing off the loft room as a bedroom. What more does he want?

suggestionsplease1 · 10/06/2021 05:54

My friend had something similar but had a less scrupulous lawyer who didn't do the work to establish that the loft conversion could not be called a bedroom. So it was advertised as 4 bed but if they were to sell they would be legally obliged to advertise as 3 bed unless an awful lot of work was done. They have no comeback against anyone now that is all gone through (at least not without a huge amount of expense) and are very frustrated this was missed.

Ultimately it's up to you and it's more likely to be an issue if reselling. If you think the house is still worth whatever you're paying acknowledging the issues then crack on. It's really hard to speculate what the future holds for house prices at the moment.

SpeakingFranglais · 10/06/2021 07:29

@titchy

How come your survey didn't give you a value? That's odd unless you're a cash buyer?

Remember the vendor's solicitor is working for them. The estate agent is working for them. Your solicitor is the only one representing your interests. The vendor and EA don't give one shiny shit about you.

Listen to your solicitor. And get a surveyors valuation!

DDs didn’t, building society did a desktop valuation, and then she paid for a separate survey with a surveyor and declined the valuation (it was an extra cost) because she already had her mortgage approved.
mayblossominapril · 10/06/2021 07:50

I’m very easy going about most faults with houses. Damp, leaks, dodgy electrics and plumbing doesn’t put me off. Loft conversions do put me off. The current regs are very strict, so,e mortgage providers don’t like old ones, difficult if the house is going to be let out by a purchaser.
If it’s priced for the loft to be a hobby space fine otherwise I would avoid it.

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