No building regs, about to pull out

[IHeartNiles]

2 months in to our purchase and enquiries have finally come back to show no building regs on the large extensions that make up approx half the house. Extensions only a few years old, appearance is good but who knows. Apparently vendor in some sort of dispute with the building company. Offering indemnity but that’s not going to be of any use if the building needs work or god forbid replacing. Not even sure if our mortgage lender would agree to loan on it and solicitor would be obliged to tell them.

What a pain in the arse. Will now have to look for a rental as really want to complete on our sale.

Anyone have any experience, reassure me we’re doing the correct thing.so pissed off. Am trying to think how we could get an alert on this sort of thing in the future, I guess ask the sellers to see the paperwork upfront.

Not an expert on this but we've had things done where the builder has said they are using the competent persons scheme and we don't need to apply:

www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200137/how_to_get_approval/77/where_to_get_approval/4#:~:text=Competent%20person%20self%2Dcertification%20schemes%20(commonly%20referred%20to%20as%20competent,notice%20or%20using%20an%20approved

Though don't think you'ld get a whole extension done that way but maybe components of it like gas and electrics, this is the list:

www.gov.uk/guidance/competent-person-scheme-current-schemes-and-how-schemes-are-authorised#current-schemes

But as he's experienced not likely he didn't know rules and what he needed to do.

We also had one who said this didn't provide paperwork so I called council and they came out and sorted. I would guess its some kind of financial dispute.

I think as there is clearly something to hide, you will probably never find out. If it was a simple answer, they would be explaining it to you and trying to find a way forwards. No matter what the estate agent says about finding another buyer, they don't want to at this stage, and the fact that they're not trying suggests there it isn't simple.

Have you asked the council what could have happened? I spoke to the council about ours last week, and although they didn't really know either, the lady I spoke to said it was very unlikely the certificate we'd been given related to a garage conversion.

I would doubt the disagreement is something simple, otherwise surely they would just resolve it?

Sorry not to be more help, hopefully someone wise will be along. We are making our decision today whether to pull out. It's horrible after all this time and it means we have to part out storage and moving in with family by the 11th. X

It might be that the extension would never meet building regs. If they are a developer and were planning to stay they might have been happy that it was built correctly but wanted features that wouldn't meet regs for thermal efficiency e.g. large areas of glazing so didn't bother.

We saw a lot of conservatories/glazed extensions that were fully opened up to the kitchen that would never meet building regs when we looked at houses.

(It's possible to get majority glazed extensions through building regs but often requires very expensive glass/other works)

Hi there
Posting as we had a similar situation with our house sale but in reverse.
We had had a loft conversion carried out by a specialist company. We knew that the local authority had been made aware at the start of the works and building control had been out during the build. We had paid the loft company to take care of everything for us.

For reasons I won't bore you with we were a little distracted during the build and so when it was finished and someone from building control had been out, we didn't think about it again and assumed everything was ok.

2 years on (about 3 months ago) we put our house on the market and sold. When our buyers solicitors asked for the building control certificate I went back to the loft conversion company to ask for it. Only to be informed that they had outsourced the building control to an external contractor who had gone bust without issuing the final certificate.

I cannot tell you the stress and anxiety it caused as we knew that any whiff of this and our buyers would be thinking along the same lines of you.

By some miracle we managed to get the local authority out to inspect, we had to jump through hoops including cutting holes and getting electrical certs repeated but eventually they gave retrospective sign off.

I'm not sure if this might be what happened with your sellers OP but it could have been something like this and whilst it would be an oversight on their part not something that was their fault.

I would pull out. We've just bought a property missing building regs but it's a small extension from 20years ago so all advice was to get an indemnity and continue.
A recent issue with potential payments outstanding etc - I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Realistically he shouldn't be selling a property that still has payments and discrepancies outstanding.

@OUB1974

I think as there is clearly something to hide, you will probably never find out. If it was a simple answer, they would be explaining it to you and trying to find a way forwards. No matter what the estate agent says about finding another buyer, they don't want to at this stage, and the fact that they're not trying suggests there it isn't simple.

Have you asked the council what could have happened? I spoke to the council about ours last week, and although they didn't really know either, the lady I spoke to said it was very unlikely the certificate we'd been given related to a garage conversion.

I would doubt the disagreement is something simple, otherwise surely they would just resolve it?

Sorry not to be more help, hopefully someone wise will be along. We are making our decision today whether to pull out. It's horrible after all this time and it means we have to part out storage and moving in with family by the 11th. X

This is helpful thank you and I’m sorry that you’re going through the same. We’re doing the right thing and thank goodness we’ve been able to find out.

It’s definitely not something simple and he and the event have gone from being belligerent (“take or leave it we’ll find another buyer” to suddenly very desperate “give him 72 hours to try and get it sorted”).

One thing I will be doing is reporting it to the council afterwards which will hopefully stop them being able to lead other purchasers down the garden path of indemnity insurance.

@pinfloy

It might be that the extension would never meet building regs. If they are a developer and were planning to stay they might have been happy that it was built correctly but wanted features that wouldn't meet regs for thermal efficiency e.g. large areas of glazing so didn't bother.

We saw a lot of conservatories/glazed extensions that were fully opened up to the kitchen that would never meet building regs when we looked at houses.

(It's possible to get majority glazed extensions through building regs but often requires very expensive glass/other works)

Thanks for this. I’m now thinking it could well be all the glazing. They have no Fensa or Certass on the massive glass extensions. He probably went for cost cutting.

@taupeskies

Hi there Posting as we had a similar situation with our house sale but in reverse. We had had a loft conversion carried out by a specialist company. We knew that the local authority had been made aware at the start of the works and building control had been out during the build. We had paid the loft company to take care of everything for us.

For reasons I won't bore you with we were a little distracted during the build and so when it was finished and someone from building control had been out, we didn't think about it again and assumed everything was ok.

2 years on (about 3 months ago) we put our house on the market and sold. When our buyers solicitors asked for the building control certificate I went back to the loft conversion company to ask for it. Only to be informed that they had outsourced the building control to an external contractor who had gone bust without issuing the final certificate.

I cannot tell you the stress and anxiety it caused as we knew that any whiff of this and our buyers would be thinking along the same lines of you.

By some miracle we managed to get the local authority out to inspect, we had to jump through hoops including cutting holes and getting electrical certs repeated but eventually they gave retrospective sign off.

I'm not sure if this might be what happened with your sellers OP but it could have been something like this and whilst it would be an oversight on their part not something that was their fault.

Poor you, what a nightmare. This chap though is. A property developer and it’s his own house, so he should know better.

@Lurchermom

I would pull out. We've just bought a property missing building regs but it's a small extension from 20years ago so all advice was to get an indemnity and continue. A recent issue with potential payments outstanding etc - I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Realistically he shouldn't be selling a property that still has payments and discrepancies outstanding.

Yes I would have accepted a small older extension but if this thing goes wrong it’s basically half the house. No me either re all the disputes, something very dodgy there.

@SilkieCat

We also had one who said this didn't provide paperwork so I called council and they came out and sorted. I would guess its some kind of financial dispute.

Yes, I suspect we’ll never know the truth. It’s probably in his interests to keep it all quiet.

I have always had to get building regs certificates direct from council, not from the builders.

I’m waiting for him to provide the paperwork. If he fails to do so I will report to the council and this should stop him taking any more gullible people down a path of indemnity insurance.

Is the EA obliged to inform any potential purchasers of what he now knows about the lack of certificates for all the work?

Just another voice saying you are doing totally the right thing by pulling out.

Nothing about the vendor’s story makes sense. I suspect they went ahead with the stages of the build without waiting for building control visits, then couldn’t get approval later because the work was covered up.

Or aspects of the work didn’t comply with BR in the first place. Probably because they cut corners.

Our builder organised the appointment with building regs but the paperwork all came to us. That was with the approved contractor scheme someone mentioned earlier. The whole situation sounds dodgy. If it was an older extension you’d probably be thinking differently but the recency and weird personal backstory why they are selling and the dispute with the builder stack up to enough to make anyone walk away.

Would be very interested to know what happens after the 72 hours the seller has asked for

I personally wouldn't let the lack of buildings regs put me off a purchase completely. Assuming it's not something mega complex, & is just a standard'ish extension on a regular house, it's really pretty obvious to someone who knows what they're looking for whether it will be in compliance or not. I'd get that expert opinion, then negotiate hard.

I haven't read the whole thread op, but what's the reason you can't get retrospective building regs?

If you're happy to open up to view steels etc and dig trial holes for foundations then why couldn't you get sign off? H is a building inspector and does a lot of these.

Surely the sellers can put it an application and see what the authority says?

If it was us then H would make the decision - if he was comfortable that it had been built properly then we'd go ahead. But with a price reduction of course.

@FurierTransform

I personally wouldn't let the lack of buildings regs put me off a purchase completely. Assuming it's not something mega complex, & is just a standard'ish extension on a regular house, it's really pretty obvious to someone who knows what they're looking for whether it will be in compliance or not. I'd get that expert opinion, then negotiate hard.

It’s complex, remodelling of the roof, double storey and single storey extensions, orangery. It’s doubled the size of the existing house. Huge glass areas. No regs for anything.

@AnneElliott

I haven't read the whole thread op, but what's the reason you can't get retrospective building regs?

If you're happy to open up to view steels etc and dig trial holes for foundations then why couldn't you get sign off? H is a building inspector and does a lot of these.

Surely the sellers can put it an application and see what the authority says?

If it was us then H would make the decision - if he was comfortable that it had been built properly then we'd go ahead. But with a price reduction of course.

I believe it will take months. I wouldn’t be happy to buy it and then deal with it. If what’s under there is a bunch of substandard work I don’t want to be left with it.

Your question about how to find more info on building regs, if started by an Approved Inspector (ie not the council) then they have to send a notice to the LA when works start. So the LA should have record if a company has put the notice in.

It may be that the builder has contracted the AI and is withholding certificates due to a dispute. But if you find the AI then they should be able to tell you what stage it got to.

@IHeartNiles

I’m waiting for him to provide the paperwork. If he fails to do so I will report to the council and this should stop him taking any more gullible people down a path of indemnity insurance.

Is the EA obliged to inform any potential purchasers of what he now knows about the lack of certificates for all the work?

I don't think they're doing obliged to disclose it upfront, but if they're asked, they're not legally allowed to lie about it. At least that was the position a few years ago when we were trying to buy a flat that turned out to have serious structural issues. The vendor just swapped estate agents though so not brilliant buyer protection!

OP when you put it in stark terms of exactly what the scale of the extension is and not merely “half the house” that could be anything if say a small 2 bed cottage, it’s bloody enormous. Why oh why would you not have all the regulatory paperwork for this. It’s sheer madness property developer or not.

I’m incredulous that somebody has extended this much and hasn’t got BR and they and the EA expect you to proceed. Nobody, literally nobody, would do without BR sign off. It will be very interesting to hear what response you are going to get in this 72 hour window but I can’t imagine this is going to resolve itself quickly as the vendor just isn’t on a normal planet. Then factor in that he’s supposed to be a property developer and somehow it all just gets worse.

This behaviour really isn’t normal, but you know that yourself.

@friendlycat

OP when you put it in stark terms of exactly what the scale of the extension is and not merely “half the house” that could be anything if say a small 2 bed cottage, it’s bloody enormous. Why oh why would you not have all the regulatory paperwork for this. It’s sheer madness property developer or not.

I’m incredulous that somebody has extended this much and hasn’t got BR and they and the EA expect you to proceed. Nobody, literally nobody, would do without BR sign off. It will be very interesting to hear what response you are going to get in this 72 hour window but I can’t imagine this is going to resolve itself quickly as the vendor just isn’t on a normal planet. Then factor in that he’s supposed to be a property developer and somehow it all just gets worse.

This behaviour really isn’t normal, but you know that yourself.

Yes it’s a big house. I’ve mentally deteached from it now, am vaguely interested to hear what he’s going to magic up but suspect it won’t be anything that will encourage me to buy it off him. It’s astonishing really,

Good luck, interested to hear what happens. We have just pulled out of ours (and it's a much smaller renovation, but likewise we don't want to get stuck with the work, and there are at least 3 issues that would probably fail it that we can see). Everyone keeps telling is something better will come along. Not sure of that helps, it really annoys my husband but it reassures me!