No building regs, about to pull out

[IHeartNiles]

2 months in to our purchase and enquiries have finally come back to show no building regs on the large extensions that make up approx half the house. Extensions only a few years old, appearance is good but who knows. Apparently vendor in some sort of dispute with the building company. Offering indemnity but that’s not going to be of any use if the building needs work or god forbid replacing. Not even sure if our mortgage lender would agree to loan on it and solicitor would be obliged to tell them.

What a pain in the arse. Will now have to look for a rental as really want to complete on our sale.

Anyone have any experience, reassure me we’re doing the correct thing.so pissed off. Am trying to think how we could get an alert on this sort of thing in the future, I guess ask the sellers to see the paperwork upfront.

I think that estate agent is being over-optimistic. With such a large extension I would have thought any buyer would want building regs in place. There must be a back story here - any reputable builder would ensure building regs were done.

Having said that, we had a huge inglenook fireplace and chimney removed from our kitchen to knock through for french doors. The builder blithely told my husband that we didn't need building regs. Bearing in mind a structural engineer was used, my husband insisted that we also got the appropriate building regs signed off. Thank goodness he did, as of course it was evidence we needed when we sold.

I hope you can get it resolved by speaking to the builder. Those vendors are so awful to have left it so long, as they must have realised they would be required for the sale.

What a stupid thing for the estate agents to say.

There is a difference between finding another buyer and actually completing on the sale. The EA is being very optimistic.

@IHeartNiles

The estate agent seems to think they will just find another buyer who is willing to accept it. But I can’t see that.

Estate agents are so full of shit it is ubelievable at times.

It is down to the vendor. There are three scenarios here

1. It is a rogue built extension and building regs were never applied for and it wasn't inspected. This is an unlikely scenario given it is not an old extension

1. He had a builder but is in dispute. This means that the building inspector should have made regular visits to inspect it which will be recorded on file but hasn't been signed off. If that is the case, the vendor could get the final certificate as long as the certificates for electrical installation have been lodged or recorded with the supervising body.

3 The extension was never fully finished (which does happen), ie a bathroom is in the plans but not installed despite the rest being fine.

You could do with finding out as it could make a material difference to what you do. A friend had similar whereby the basement had been knocked about, steels inserted and changed into a kitchen. It needed building regs but didn't have. The owner said it was converted when he bought it but was lying. Building control couldn't certify it as it needed all the steels exposing along with engineers calculations to check they could hold the load and non were in existence.

She pulled out and it sold.....£25K less than asking price!

@DaphneduM

I think that estate agent is being over-optimistic. With such a large extension I would have thought any buyer would want building regs in place. There must be a back story here - any reputable builder would ensure building regs were done.

Having said that, we had a huge inglenook fireplace and chimney removed from our kitchen to knock through for french doors. The builder blithely told my husband that we didn't need building regs. Bearing in mind a structural engineer was used, my husband insisted that we also got the appropriate building regs signed off. Thank goodness he did, as of course it was evidence we needed when we sold.

I hope you can get it resolved by speaking to the builder. Those vendors are so awful to have left it so long, as they must have realised they would be required for the sale.

I know, it’s awful behaviour to have kept this info back, especially as he is apparently a property developer and should know better. It leaves a bad tase in my mouth, I don’t think he’ll get the regs and I’ll probably pull out regardless.

The build looks good quality, high end, well finished, but who knows. I strongly suspect they’ve fallen out because he owes the builder money. I suspect that things were done properly and the builder is holding back all the paperwork because they’ve not been paid.

They’ve been spectacularly unhelpful, suggested today that indemnity was all they would offer, and arrogant that they could find a replacement buyer. Well good luck with getting them to complete mate.

@PresentingPercy

There is a difference between finding another buyer and actually completing on the sale. The EA is being very optimistic.

Totally agree

I would ask the sellers to get retrospective building regs - looks as if some inspections have been made. We had a situation where the building regs dept had simply not been asked to produce the certificate at the end of the works - they came round, had a quick look, and were happy to produce the certificate - only took about a week to sort out.

[quote MarieG10]@IHeartNiles

The estate agent seems to think they will just find another buyer who is willing to accept it. But I can’t see that.

Estate agents are so full of shit it is ubelievable at times.

It is down to the vendor. There are three scenarios here

1. It is a rogue built extension and building regs were never applied for and it wasn't inspected. This is an unlikely scenario given it is not an old extension

1. He had a builder but is in dispute. This means that the building inspector should have made regular visits to inspect it which will be recorded on file but hasn't been signed off. If that is the case, the vendor could get the final certificate as long as the certificates for electrical installation have been lodged or recorded with the supervising body.

3 The extension was never fully finished (which does happen), ie a bathroom is in the plans but not installed despite the rest being fine.

You could do with finding out as it could make a material difference to what you do. A friend had similar whereby the basement had been knocked about, steels inserted and changed into a kitchen. It needed building regs but didn't have. The owner said it was converted when he bought it but was lying. Building control couldn't certify it as it needed all the steels exposing along with engineers calculations to check they could hold the load and non were in existence.

She pulled out and it sold.....£25K less than asking price![/quote]
It’s not no 3, the work is complete and per the planning.
I think it’s no 2 from what we’ve been told but as he’s been so dodgy I wouldn’t trust anything he said. It looks lovely so I suspect it’s fine but don’t think we’ll ever be assured of that. I think this will need a huge hit on the sale price to sell. It’s an expensive property.

@bilbodog

I would ask the sellers to get retrospective building regs - looks as if some inspections have been made. We had a situation where the building regs dept had simply not been asked to produce the certificate at the end of the works - they came round, had a quick look, and were happy to produce the certificate - only took about a week to sort out.

We’ve asked them but it was over 4 years ago, the expert we talked to didn’t think it could be done if they didn’t start the process. We just don’t know what was done, how far they got, if it was even started...

Ask your solicitor to write to Building Control direct to see what records they have

The extension of our house doesn’t have building regs approval although has been up for years and years. The vendor got an indemnity insurance. We’ve since had major work done and found issues so we fixed them. I do believe we can claim for the work but also sounds really complicated so haven’t.

When we were FTBs we viewed a 3 bed house we liked but wanted to see a few others as we were naive and picky. It had been on the market for at least 18mths at that point, though we didn’t mull on why as we were like kids in the sweetie shop of rightmove. We ended up offering on another house, which fell through before exchange and we were devastated. It was a few months before we started looking again, and when we did, House 1 was still on the market having apparently had a sale fall through and with all the time lapse from our failed purchase - it had been 2.5 years since it first came to market.

The EA assured us there was nothing amiss with all this, and that the vendors had just been really unlucky. We ended up making an offer.

Late in the conveyancing we discovered that the house had no building regs for what was marketed as bedroom 3. Due to the split level layout of the house what genuinely appeared to be a bedroom from viewing was actually the loft which had been converted without any building regs etc.

We ended up pulling out. The vendors would not negotiate at all. Looking back there was a load of other red flags we probably should have more note of and I think the EA led us up the garden path as well. They then tried to remarket the property as a 4 bed house, including the dining room as the fourth bedroom! Ive not regrets walking away from that one, even though it cost us ££ in fees. We’d have inherited a lot of grief trying to sort it out, and would have put us with the same problem when we came to sell. It’s not worth it. I think our solicitor told us making enquiries to building control would invalidate an indemnity at the time, and I think there were issues with our valuation as it could only be valued as a two bed.

@ReadySteadyBed

The extension of our house doesn’t have building regs approval although has been up for years and years. The vendor got an indemnity insurance. We’ve since had major work done and found issues so we fixed them. I do believe we can claim for the work but also sounds really complicated so haven’t.

It’s less worrying if historic. We’ve got extension on our house that 100 years old, no building regs back then. It’s less forgiving on newer properties, you have to ask why wouldn’t a builder get regs.

Indemnity only covers you against the council asking you to remove the structure. It doesn’t provide insurance against poor builds.

@deedeedelmonte

When we were FTBs we viewed a 3 bed house we liked but wanted to see a few others as we were naive and picky. It had been on the market for at least 18mths at that point, though we didn’t mull on why as we were like kids in the sweetie shop of rightmove. We ended up offering on another house, which fell through before exchange and we were devastated. It was a few months before we started looking again, and when we did, House 1 was still on the market having apparently had a sale fall through and with all the time lapse from our failed purchase - it had been 2.5 years since it first came to market.

The EA assured us there was nothing amiss with all this, and that the vendors had just been really unlucky. We ended up making an offer.

Late in the conveyancing we discovered that the house had no building regs for what was marketed as bedroom 3. Due to the split level layout of the house what genuinely appeared to be a bedroom from viewing was actually the loft which had been converted without any building regs etc.

We ended up pulling out. The vendors would not negotiate at all. Looking back there was a load of other red flags we probably should have more note of and I think the EA led us up the garden path as well. They then tried to remarket the property as a 4 bed house, including the dining room as the fourth bedroom! Ive not regrets walking away from that one, even though it cost us ££ in fees. We’d have inherited a lot of grief trying to sort it out, and would have put us with the same problem when we came to sell. It’s not worth it. I think our solicitor told us making enquiries to building control would invalidate an indemnity at the time, and I think there were issues with our valuation as it could only be valued as a two bed.

You totally did the right thing. The whole process is so drawn out and people able to hide info for too long.

There was no such thing as PP 100 years ago let along building regs. These days BRegs is to stop rogue builders and ensure safety for occupants, eg fire risks, size of stairs for escape, foundations, size and mounting of beams etc. It is utterly arrogant not to bother.

Coincidentally it is 4 years to the day that I pulled out of buying a lovely little cottage that I had fallen in love with. The survey picked up on the fact that the kitchen extension was moving away from the main house and that although Building Regs had been applied for they were never signed off.

I had no joy getting any information from the vendor; in fact she was very evasive and bullying in equal measure (selling through Purple Bricks) so I dropped out. She also offered indemity insurance but as you say that is of no help if the extension collapsed.

The following Monday I booked 11 viewings. found the house I am in now and am very happy.

I pulled out for this exact reason last week. Aside from obvious structural safety concerns, there was the following:

1. Indemnity isn't worth much as it covers only legal fees, not the cost to put right - and is invalid if anyone alerts the council in any way. How else would they find out, random door to door checks? 🤔

1. Alarmingly, I found out that, whilst I may be able to get buildings insurance, and pay for it, it almost certainly wouldn't actually pay out if there was any issue caused or exacerbated by illegal building works. So, even if there was an earthquake and the house was damaged, I would be left with rubble and a mortgage.

1. If the house was structurally weakened by the work, I would have to put it right in order to safely and legally renovate and extend.

1. Finally, so many people walk away from houses with this sort of issue that I would be rescuing taking on the vendor's problem and paying them full whack for a house effectively worth zero. I felt for them, but I'm not a charity.

And, with that, I pulled out.

They might find someone stupid enough to buy it
Indemnity insurance is not the answer,more and more people will not accept on a resale

Builiding extensions onto old cottages is fraught with problems if the design is not correct. Old cottages have very shallow foundations. New buildings do not. Old cottages move and new buildings are designed not to do this. Therefore there can be differential movement. There must be movement joints to allow for this. If there are none, cracks are likely to appear.

@PresentingPercy

There was no such thing as PP 100 years ago let along building regs. These days BRegs is to stop rogue builders and ensure safety for occupants, eg fire risks, size of stairs for escape, foundations, size and mounting of beams etc. It is utterly arrogant not to bother.

Arrogant and stupid! Who would buy it?

Great post @NCHouseBuy.

@IHeartNiles I posted earlier that we'd just sorted out a similar problem. In the last hour or two it's turned out that it isn't sorted out at all, so we are in a very similar position.

Our seller said at our first viewing all was in place and also said the regs had been signed off on the property information form. The searches came back negative though, so our solicitor has asked for proper evidence. They sent us a very vague certificate, and our solicitor asked them to tell her exactly what it was for and to provide evidence. They sent over a planning application, which to me looked fine, but I sent it to the solicitor and she explained that it's not related in any way and with the negative searches and lack of documentation it looks as though it hasnt been done properly. They have just tried to gloss over it and fob us off with unrelated documents.

So we have reduced our offer by the amount it may cost to put right. Just waiting to see if they will accept. In a way I'd prefer to walk away but we need a home. We will get the council to come and check it retrospectively and do any work required.

Sorry for hijacking slightly. It's a tough decision to make. The posts on here who have been through similar are really reassuring me that we've done the right thing. Everyone is pushing us to get insurance, but we're not interested. Good luck. X

At every stage of my extensions building control visit then sent me an email after with photos they have taken and saying ok to proceed to the next stage , Thought this was normal procedure?

Someone might buy it and live in it for 30 -40 years and by that time the house would need a refurb anyway ,

We built an extension once where we got planning but not building regs. We thought you didn't need building regs for a conservatory and you don't unless it's completely open to a kitchen which ours was. I was so worried when we came to sell but we got indemnity insurance and the house has sold about four times since so it wouldn't put me off now I understand it's very low risk - but I do get why you are worried

Even if they fell out with the builder it is the owners responsibility to apply for building regs in the first place. From what you say they didn't complete the application?

If they had the application signed off, the builder would on the building control defined schedule and they would have needed to inform when they reached the stages. First is usually foundations. If this happened the council would have a record.

Without knowing that the foundations were built correctly you could have a wreck on your hands. Another stage is ensuring insulation is correct thickness and where needed, fire protection. It could be a freezing cold house or at worse a very unsafe house if fire retardant insulation not used.

This is why there are regs to prevent builders from shoddy builds that are a risk to householders.

My guess is the owners wanted to save time and money and not apply for regs. Foolish, foolish decision on a big extension and you are absolutely right to pull out.

I would worry that they saved money on the build and tarted it up with nice fixtures..hoping to trick buyers.