Bringing family up in an inner city flat...

[goteam]

Our narrative at home has always been that we need to move out of our flat to a house once the kids are a few years from secondary school for more space. That time is kind of now. We are in zone 2 near lovely parks, swimming pools, theatres, quick bus into central London and lots of other amenities. We just can't decide on an area of north London we like enough and can afford (900k max) and just love our current location so much.

Anyone have positive stories about bringing older kids up in flats? The kids were sharing a bedroom but we have rearranged so our small reception room is now bedroom 3 and the kitchen diner which is quite big has become our living room too. We don't feel cramped though and have clever storage and beginning to think is it worth the upheaval of moving schools etc for an extra bedroom and a bit more living space?! We want an extra bedroom mainly so friends and family can stay but that's all we need it for really. We would downsize again if we did move once the kids leave home.

We have a garden and over lockdown we spent a lot of time in there putting new decking down and in the summer it really is like having an extra room.

I think we are beginning to doubt whether we actually want to move! I know many people live in high rises etc and apartment living is just how it is for many but I guess the thing is we have a choice here. We could move to zone 4 or 5 and get a nice house but be in the suburbs really without the which we aren't sure we want! In an ideal world we would be able to afford a house here but they are 1.2 million for 3 bedroom terraces which don't actually provide much more space....1.3 million for 4 bedrooms...

We felt a bit cramped and on top of each other over lockdown but now things are a bit more normal we are often out and about and home is more of a base which is what has always kept us here.

Any thoughts and positive stories welcome!

Meant to say, also in north Central London and I would never want to live in the suburbs

Surely you have done the hard part of living in a flat as a family. Small children have so many large belongings, need so much running around where as older children not so many arge items but more expensive.

Lockdown isn't the norm, and I think London was particularly tricky during lockdown for families. We live in a typical London Georgian house but we all felt so squashed during the height of the lockdown.

There is no rush to move from your description so I would wait and evaluate when times are normal again and all of London benefits are back up and running.

I would absolutely love to live in Zone 2 and would def stay put

Grew up in a zone 1 flat and brought my children up in one until they were early teens. Then moved to zone three for more space (theoretically) and separate bedrooms.

Now the children are grown up, separate bedrooms has been important. But in terms of sq metres, my house is only about 7 sqm larger than the flat.

I loved my flat and we all still miss it actually. I walked to work, west end/city were so close. Lovely parks and lots of amenities. Whilst the flat was a good size, it didn't have the ability to use the space flexibly. My ideal would have been to spilt the large bedroom with a stud wall to give the children a bedroom each but it just wasn't possible. I also appreciate a freehold over the flat's leasehold.

But if I could go back in time, I'd take the risk (was just too scared as a single parent) to remortgage the flat to provide a deposit for the house and rent the flat out. As the children are closer to leaving home, I'd much prefer to be living centrally.

It really sounds like you want to stay in the flat.

If the DCs have their own bedroom , all I can say , if you have access to parks for exercise sport etc ( and indeed gym etc ) my DC as a teenager was so much happier living in london with easy public transport to friends and stuff they wanted to do rather than more of a trek into London for the sake of a garden.

Thanks all. Lots of food for thought. @blueteatowel we wouldn't be getting much more square footage either if we move into a 3 bed house. A 4 bedroom house would but we would be looking at zone 4 / 5 so really not the London we know. I guess it's the extra living space we would get but maybe not enough to justify a move. Its moving out of London where people really cash in and trade the flat in for a big family home but we are pretty sure we don't want to do that.

So really, a move to zone 3, 4 or 5 means we pay an extra 200- 250k for a house as opposed to a flat, a spare bedroom and a small amount of extra living space. I just don't know!

We moved to the edge of London before starting a family as we prefer space, greenery and the countryside on the doorstep. We’re happy to sit on the train and chat for 30mins on the way to the theatre and like that you can pop to the pool or elsewhere without it being rammed. I’d find it depressing if I needed to go to a coffee shop to read a book to have time to myself. So yes, outer London works for me but it sounds like you’re the opposite.

You’ve already managed a number of years as a family in a small property so I’m sure you’ll manage another few. The only alternative I can think of is looking at cheaper parts of zone 2 so possibly not N London as that seems to be the priciest side.

Yeah @JoJoSM2 I actually like the buzz of being alone but with people around so sitting in a cafe with a coffee and a book is something I genuinely enjoy. Also visiting galleries alone etc! That's what I like about where we live. Friends in the suburbs or commuter towns very much have work and leisure / family time separated. It's hard to explain but being close to everything we need and it not being a huge operation to do things like pop to a museum or restaurant just makes life feel more spontaneous and fun. As the kids get older I think moreso but it is hard to work out whether we prioritise those things over more space.

Nothing ever seems that rammed here. I go swimming every other day and have for 10 years of living here (apart from lockdown) and the pool is never busy and we have a lot of green space. Booking things like lessons is another matter though but I think that's the case everywhere.

We definitely need to stay north of the river. Our jobs are here and we need easy access to the north of England for family.

That’s lucky that the pool isn’t busy. When I lived in zone 2, you always had 3-4 people per lane and things like tennis courts in the park required booking etc. I found it a pain.

It does sound like you want to stay where you are so it’s just a question of making your family life as easy as possible.

Oh my goodness, don’t move out of London, if you love it. We moved out because we grew up in the countryside. But it’s nothing like London, it’s very pedestrian. For us, it was worth it; we have a big house and a garden. But it’s very sedate and nothing like London! Stay where you are, if you love it.

It does sound like you don't want to move so is there anyway you could add an extra room by having an extension?
Or like a pp mentioned could the largest bedroom be split in two with a stud wall? Then perhaps you could use the original reception room as a small tv/games/guest/sitting room?
I suppose the only other option which may be a bit mad is to knock down all the internal walls & rejig the layout.
I remember a tv programme with George Clarke doing this, think it was Old House, New Home.

@TracyBeakerSoYeah there isn't any reconfiguring we can do unfortunately or extensions. That would be ideal though as most of the rooms are bigger than they need to be there just aren't enough of them!

I think we thought our priorities might change as we got older and the kids got older and that would make the decision for us but we still like the lifestyle we have.

If your kids are happy in school, i would’nt move unless it times with transition to secondary.
Wherever you move to, the school places which will be available will probably not be at such great schools, and you may well have difficulty getting both kids into the same school.

My impression is that many people move out of Central London because of a) cash, b) schools, c) a bigger place, d)change of pace. Downsides a) losing your community/friends - not just local ones but also those who live on the opposite sides of London - from the centre you can get to most people, from N London how often will you see those in S or W London with your two kids, b) longer commute - to things, not just the office but also museums etc, c) change of lifestyle. I guess you need to add up whether any of these stack up for you.

We are a family in zone1 but are moving out because due to covid our budget is now less than yours and we cant get a garden. Plus schools around here are bad. In your circumstances, we would have stayed.

One option for you could be to buy a three-bed flat - those definitely exist in zone 2 and within your budget - thats if you want space.

@ISBN111 that is something we worry about. They are happy in school and we aren't sure if the disruption is justified. I also worry that even if they do get school places they will struggle to make friends as friendship groups will be cemented by then (years 5 and 3 if we move next summer)

@zurich09 urs a bigger flat is a possibility. We have seen some big 3 bed split level maisonettes not too far from here but still an extra £150k.

A lot of our good friends have been priced out of London sadly but have moved to disparate parts of the country so no one other place makes sense for us to move to. Central-ish London makes the most sense because of the ease of getting not just to other parts of London but to friends and family who are dotted across the country now. We drive but often travel by train and it's great being close to mainline stations.

Are you staying in London @zurich09 ?

Totally staying in London and only going to move to zone 2.......and even then I feel bereft. My only slight issue about zone1 is that everyone is super-rich. We are not and don't care about expensive things even when we did have a lot of money. So am looking forward to living with slightly more 'normal' people. But other than that - we're getting a flat as close to the centre as possible. Long roads of houses terrifying me.

However, I was wondering whether most of the other families in zones1+2 will move out and buy that dream house in zone XXX now that people dont have to commute. That might make those parts of London emptier and not as much fun. I remember the times when zones 1+2 were no go areas so can imagine it.

Another zone 2 flat dweller with no plans to leave.

It’s interesting to me how people in the UK assume that they will “upgrade” to a house, while in Europe apartment living is very standard.

I’m lucky to live in a large flat, and don’t think the £500k I’d need would give me much more than perhaps a larger kitchen/dining room, maybe a small 4th bedroom, even if I could afford it...

Are there are any particular areas in London that you are interested in apart from where you are at the moment?
You could give us the area that you're in, but put somewhere in the list of the areas you like (so you can still keep your anonymity)
I'm sure there's quite a few of us on here who are itching to do a RightMove search

We live in a 2 bed flat in zone 1 and we don't plan to leave central London. I grew up nearby (and shared a room with 2 sisters) so I don't have the same need for a garden or green space as others. We plan to move within 2 years, as we have 2 DCs of opposite sex so we want another bedroom, but won't move further out than zone 2. There aren't any schools I'm keen on, in the area that would be an easy walk to DH's office, unless we go out to zone 2.

Schools are the main trigger for us moving really. I'd be looking ahead to secondaries for your eldest as they are almost 9. If you are happy with the secondaries in your area (for both dc) then I'd probably just stay put. If you were keen to get into a particular secondary, then I'd consider moving in time for your eldest's application.

I think you're quite similar to us, we like the convenience and spontaneity of having everything on our doorstep. My dd is a toddler and even in post-lockdown London, there are tons of activities to keep her occupied - she has been back at toddler classes for a while, and we're visiting different museums/galleries every week as we've really missed them. It's so easy to get everywhere, and I like the buzz of being in the middle of everything.

I can't compare where I live in zone 3 to zone 1/2 living but just wanted to assure you that you could buy in zone 3 and get 4 beds and a big garden. I have a 90 ft garden, 5 beds, good schools and parks and Epping Forest on my doorstep and only 20 mins into the city/25 to westend. 900k would get you something amazing here!

If in doubt do nought? If the schools are good in your area and amenities are at hand, then that counts for a lot. Are you served by a good GP Practice? Might sound irrelevant but you might be surprised at how many people have to travel for a service in some areas. I grew up in SW3 area and loved being able to walk to museums or hop on the bus to art galleries. We are now in outer London where we have convenience s, plenty of green spaces and a short trip to London. Before this blooming virus we were always up and down to London visiting places of interest, shops etc but as we are elderly we are not doing unnecessary travel on public transport. However, the open spaces are a blessing for walks. What does your dh think about moving? Will it involve more travel for work? Also, my only offering is that I believe you should go with your gut feeling. It’s often the best guide. Moves are stressful so you must really want it. Good luck and hope you make a decision that makes you happy.

Thanks @HappydaysArehere DH is like me. He errs between thinking we need more space and then having a lovely day at a local park and cafe with a short trip to a museum / zoo etc and thinking how lucky we are and need to make the flat work long term. No trip involves loads of planning or travel.

@TracyBeakerSoYeah areas we have thought about moving to include southgate, winchmore hill, palmers green, finchley and harrow but while they are nice areas (with great secondary schools) they all feel very suburban. It feels like going into central London will suddenly become a big undertaking and certainly can't be done by bus. There is something about sitting on the top deck of a bus passing lots of London landmarks we just love.

@Stinginthetail are you in Walthamstow? I like it there and that might be one place to consider if we do move. Seems to have it's own stuff happening - galleries, cinema, nice parks etc.

Regarding secondaries @softshack they are ok, nothing special but I think they turn out well rounded young people. Friends kids studied locally and went on to Oxbridge and other Russell group unis. The super state secondaries are in Barnet but we did a visit to the area near one (Wren) and honestly felt a bit depressed by the area. Not for us at all. Just rows of houses as a PP mentioned, with few shops etc. I grew up somewhere like that and didnt like it.

OP having read your replies - you are just not ready for the suburbs. And you are not wrong the area around Wren can feel depressing (lived around there years ago) but people go in on the church ticket so dont have to live there.

Assuming you are already in North London and do need to move - how about Crouch End or Kensal Rise - you can get three beds in your budget.Stokey? A bigger flat is within your budget. But no you winter get CLondon vibe in the areas you mention often because people living there dont want that sort of vibe.

Ultimately, it is also a question of how big your current flat actually is - under 70m2 might be too small when everyone is bigger; 70-85m2 totally fine, over 85m2 might be bigger than a house you get.

Hi @zurich09 we do already live in one of the areas you mention. Closer to Islington. We have looked at other slightly bigger places nearby but often the way the flats are configured isn't great. They have tried to shoehorn 3 bedrooms into a too small space for instance to get more money from the flat conversion or you get a tiny shower only bathroom right next to the kitchen or zero hall space. Or they often have one tiny third bedroom that has been built in what used to be the hallway. Or it's a shared tiny garden or yard. You get what I mean! Sometimes we do just want a sensible grown up house with normal sized rooms, garden and layout! But at the expense of the other things we want!

I grew up on an estate like the area near Wren academy and was miserable. It was only visiting the nearby (but not that nearby) city that cheered me up! So I equate that city buzz with being content. I get that others hate it!