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Original poster

Vendor’s tenants refusing to leave

435 replies

Plancina · 18/07/2020 15:54

Just posting for a rant/wild hope of any advice. We have been in process of buying a really lovely house that we totally fell in love with and have laid over £1000 for survey fees, solicitor fees and a survey. It was marketed as no chain but has a private tenant in it who was supposed to move out on the 5th July. The tenant is now refusing to leave - they own their own home but it is having work done on it and they aren’t willing to move into alternative rental accommodation until their home is finished. They are ignoring all requests from their landlord to leave and insisting they will stay there until their house is ready, they won’t give a timeline for this.
Our lease is up in two months and we’d have to commit to a 6 month lease at least to stay here. We are so upset and annoyed - can’t believe how selfish these people are being. The vendor is also annoyed as they don’t want to lose the sale and they had promised their son a portion of the proceeds to buy his first home and now he is going to lose that house also.
Our solicitor says it could take a year to evict them. Sad

OP posts:
wildone84 · 20/07/2020 01:42

They were supposed to move out on 5th July? After the easing of the lockdown restrictions. I'm moving in 3 days and tenants will be moving into my place shortly afterwards. Moving house isn't banned.

wildone84 · 20/07/2020 01:45

And to boot, I'm shielding. It's not like everything has ground to a halt in terms of moving house. I was able to book a removals firm no problems and the removals people wear PPE.

LinemanForTheCounty · 20/07/2020 01:49

Good for you. This is all eminently relevant to these tenants.

wildone84 · 20/07/2020 01:50

@LinemanForTheCounty

Good for you. This is all eminently relevant to these tenants.
I'm replying to @ArriettyJones who says that it's not possible to move at the moment.
ArriettyJones · 20/07/2020 01:51

@wildone84

They were supposed to move out on 5th July? After the easing of the lockdown restrictions. I'm moving in 3 days and tenants will be moving into my place shortly afterwards. Moving house isn't banned.
If they’ve only been refusing since restrictions were lifted than the timescales are tiny and it’s not clear what OP is so worked up about.

OP’s complaint was that they had had since March to arrange a move, but obviously throughout most of lockdown, viewings weren’t possible, removals firms weren’t taking bookings, and nobody knew when lockdown would end anyway. So what were the tenants supposed to do during March/April/May/June? There was not much they could do.

My DD moved last week, which was about as rapid as we could arrange post-lockdown. She completed in April.

ArriettyJones · 20/07/2020 01:53

I'm replying to @ArriettyJones who says that it's not possible to move at the moment

Confused I said no such thing.

I said moving house DURING LOCKDOWN was not allowed. Confused

LizzieAnt · 20/07/2020 01:56

@ArriettyJones
They were supposed to move on July 5th though, not during lockdown.

wildone84 · 20/07/2020 01:58

@ArriettyJones - But their move was supposed to be on 5th July.

I organised my move a couple of months ago. We didn't start viewings until June. I left the property during viewings.

It is now possible to move. They have got somewhere else to go, and they're refusing, screwing over two other people in the process.

ArriettyJones · 20/07/2020 02:01

[quote LizzieAnt]@ArriettyJones
They were supposed to move on July 5th though, not during lockdown.[/quote]
Actually 5 July is when the initial one year term expired. It isn’t clear that the notice became effective then.

However, assuming for a moment that July 5th was the planned moving out date, my point is that they would only have had DAYS to arrange a move for then, because for most of the weeks and months running up to that NOBODY KNEW EXACTLY WHEN LOCKDOWN WOULD END. So arranging a move for 5th July would have involved weeks and weeks of uncertainty followed by a TINY TIMEFRAME to arrange the move.

wildone84 · 20/07/2020 02:06

@ArriettyJones

The removals people I spoke to didn't stop working throughout June. They were taking bookings throughout June. I know because I booked with them and spoke with them about the timing (I wasn't exactly sure when I'd be leaving.)

Moves were classed as essential travel (travelling to your new home.)

Alsohuman · 20/07/2020 02:09

I just couldn't imagine shitting on someone else like that, for personal gain

But you think it’s OK for the landlord to shit on them for personal gain.

wildone84 · 20/07/2020 02:13

@Alsohuman

I just couldn't imagine shitting on someone else like that, for personal gain

But you think it’s OK for the landlord to shit on them for personal gain.

I don't agree that the landlord is shitting on them.

The landlord said he/she would not be renewing the tenancy. They had notice of this in advance and agreed to it.

They refused to stick to the agreement when the date rolled around, despite the fact that they'd been offered somewhere else to live, and removals companies are taking bookings and it is possible to move.

Lochroy · 20/07/2020 08:30

@lyralalala

It's not something I'd do if I had other options either. The fact the tenants were offered to move doesn't mean that moving twice is financially doable for them.

I would, given that I had options, not do what either the landlord or tenant has done. Both have used the situation, the LL in January and the tenant now, to their own advantage.

The tenants have been offered the chance to move with their costs covered.

Also, fine to say it's low of the LL to pull the rug during a pandemic but none of us know why the LL is selling. This is why I can't fathom people solely defending the tenants, who are stringing things out and making it as hard as possible when it sounds like (granted, sounds, we don't actually know) they've been given proper notice and whilst it's no fun moving, they are being deliberately awkward.

There's a separate thread on here where the OP is desperate to sell because her DP has just received a terminal diagnosis. Would all the tenant defenders on here be saying the same if the situation was actually "my mum died and I inherited her house. Now my DP has had a severe illness diagnosed and whilst I've been happy to rent the house for a few years, I now want to sell to fund potentially live saving treatment, but my tenants are dragging their heels to the legal limits on moving out and I might lose the sale'. Would everyone feel differently then?

I know that's extreme, but I just find the tenants behaviour morally questionable even if not illegal and can't understand why so many people are quick to defend them.

Lochroy · 20/07/2020 08:30

@lyralalala

It's not something I'd do if I had other options either. The fact the tenants were offered to move doesn't mean that moving twice is financially doable for them.

I would, given that I had options, not do what either the landlord or tenant has done. Both have used the situation, the LL in January and the tenant now, to their own advantage.

The tenants have been offered the chance to move with their costs covered.

Also, fine to say it's low of the LL to pull the rug during a pandemic but none of us know why the LL is selling. This is why I can't fathom people solely defending the tenants, who are stringing things out and making it as hard as possible when it sounds like (granted, sounds, we don't actually know) they've been given proper notice and whilst it's no fun moving, they are being deliberately awkward.

There's a separate thread on here where the OP is desperate to sell because her DP has just received a terminal diagnosis. Would all the tenant defenders on here be saying the same if the situation was actually "my mum died and I inherited her house. Now my DP has had a severe illness diagnosed and whilst I've been happy to rent the house for a few years, I now want to sell to fund potentially live saving treatment, but my tenants are dragging their heels to the legal limits on moving out and I might lose the sale'. Would everyone feel differently then?

I know that's extreme, but I just find the tenants behaviour morally questionable even if not illegal and can't understand why so many people are quick to defend them.

Pobblebonk · 20/07/2020 10:36

The landlord said he/she would not be renewing the tenancy. They had notice of this in advance and agreed to it

And what they didn't know at that time was that lockdown would happen which would massively impact on their renovation work.

OP says they were offered alternative properties, but we have no means of knowing how suitable they were, particularly bearing in mind travel restrictions during lockdown, the possibility that one or more had to work from home, they may have been shielding or isolating, etc etc.. And we come back to the fact that OP's problem arises because she doesn't want to move twice, yet she thinks it's immoral for the tenants not to want to move twice.

locked2020 · 20/07/2020 10:41

There will be another thread soon wondering why LLs leave property empty...

ArriettyJones · 20/07/2020 10:47

Also, fine to say it's low of the LL to pull the rug during a pandemic but none of us know why the LL is selling. This is why I can't fathom people solely defending the tenants, who are stringing things out and making it as hard as possible when it sounds like (granted, sounds, we don't actually know) they've been given proper notice and whilst it's no fun moving, they are being deliberately awkward.

There's a separate thread on here where the OP is desperate to sell because her DP has just received a terminal diagnosis. Would all the tenant defenders on here be saying the same if the situation was actually "my mum died and I inherited her house. Now my DP has had a severe illness diagnosed and whilst I've been happy to rent the house for a few years, I now want to sell to fund potentially live saving treatment, but my tenants are dragging their heels to the legal limits on moving out and I might lose the sale'. Would everyone feel differently then?

That’s not the point at all. The point is that OP is blaming the tenants when her quarrel is with the landlord. Her contract is with him. Not the tenants.

It was fine for him to sell (ignoring lockdown complications) but he was COMPLETELY unreasonable to assume that he would get vacant possession in the shortest possible timeframe. He is the one legally obliged to ensure vacant possession on completion, so he should have built in enough margin to ensure it happened. He chose to wing it.

locked2020 · 20/07/2020 10:59

Tenants are giving no timeframe, not even a ballpark. The tenants are legally right, but what a fucked up law that makes it so.

InTheWings · 20/07/2020 11:08

These tenants own their own home.
They have money for extensive renovation plus paying for a rented house.
But are refusing to comply with a legally issued S21 .

The too took a gamble, taking a year’s rental.

OP, yes, walk. You can’t wait for the property to be vacant, you could miss the stamp duty-free period.

The re-commencement of building works can be delayed for longer than the shutdown period because many supply chains for building materials and plant are now disrupted, and everyone is wanting plant at the same time.

EricLove123 · 20/07/2020 11:23

The problem is a greedy landlord wanting the best of both worlds; both benefitting from rent and someone looking after their property while also selling it.

I'm in the tenants position, i've been issued with a Sec 21 eviction order as LL has an offer on the property. They know my income has been effected by CV and I currently can't afford to move but have gone ahead.

The fact is, if I don't have anywhere to go by the time the Sec 21 expires, I won't be going anywhere and they'll have to take it to court. I've been told that even pre-CV the average time between an application being made to court and the tenant leaving was 42 weeks.

I don't want to be here after the Sec 21 has expired and will do all I can to move before then. It's hugely stressful for me and I also don't want to cause stress for LL or new buyer but what choice do I have? I shouldn't feel responsible for if a buyer pulls out because i'm still here. LL should have ensured it was all dealt with before putting it on the market imo.

Pobblebonk · 20/07/2020 15:33

These tenants own their own home. They have money for extensive renovation plus paying for a rented house. But are refusing to comply with a legally issued S21 . They too took a gamble, taking a year’s rental.

To be fair, a year ago no-one would have dreamt of factoring a national pandemic and lockdown into any property renovation-based gamble.

LizzieAnt · 20/07/2020 15:42

@EricLove123
Your situation is quite a bit different to the one described by the OP though.
I'm sorry, I hope things work out for you.

Cascade220 · 20/07/2020 15:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wildone84 · 20/07/2020 19:57

@locked2020

Tenants are giving no timeframe, not even a ballpark. The tenants are legally right, but what a fucked up law that makes it so.
It is definitely fucked up.
wildone84 · 20/07/2020 20:21

@ArriettyJones

Also, fine to say it's low of the LL to pull the rug during a pandemic but none of us know why the LL is selling. This is why I can't fathom people solely defending the tenants, who are stringing things out and making it as hard as possible when it sounds like (granted, sounds, we don't actually know) they've been given proper notice and whilst it's no fun moving, they are being deliberately awkward.

There's a separate thread on here where the OP is desperate to sell because her DP has just received a terminal diagnosis. Would all the tenant defenders on here be saying the same if the situation was actually "my mum died and I inherited her house. Now my DP has had a severe illness diagnosed and whilst I've been happy to rent the house for a few years, I now want to sell to fund potentially live saving treatment, but my tenants are dragging their heels to the legal limits on moving out and I might lose the sale'. Would everyone feel differently then?

That’s not the point at all. The point is that OP is blaming the tenants when her quarrel is with the landlord. Her contract is with him. Not the tenants.

It was fine for him to sell (ignoring lockdown complications) but he was COMPLETELY unreasonable to assume that he would get vacant possession in the shortest possible timeframe. He is the one legally obliged to ensure vacant possession on completion, so he should have built in enough margin to ensure it happened. He chose to wing it.

In my opinion she's perfectly entitled to blame the tenants when they're behaving in an unethical way. They went back on an agreement. They made their problem everyone else's, causing loss and stress for other people.

We now know that they were able to arrange a move in June (and even prior to then) despite what has been claimed on this thread. I called multiple moving companies when I was arranging my move a couple of months back and none of them said, "sorry we aren't operating, we can't move you until 4th July."

Unless there is some mitigating circumstance that we don't know about (e.g. tenants are in the middle of a mental health crisis and are too unwell to move) I think their ethics are really shitty and OP has a right to feel aggrieved.

I'm not a landlord btw so I'm not coming at it from that angle.