Vendor’s tenants refusing to leave

[Plancina]

Just posting for a rant/wild hope of any advice. We have been in process of buying a really lovely house that we totally fell in love with and have laid over £1000 for survey fees, solicitor fees and a survey. It was marketed as no chain but has a private tenant in it who was supposed to move out on the 5th July. The tenant is now refusing to leave - they own their own home but it is having work done on it and they aren’t willing to move into alternative rental accommodation until their home is finished. They are ignoring all requests from their landlord to leave and insisting they will stay there until their house is ready, they won’t give a timeline for this.
Our lease is up in two months and we’d have to commit to a 6 month lease at least to stay here. We are so upset and annoyed - can’t believe how selfish these people are being. The vendor is also annoyed as they don’t want to lose the sale and they had promised their son a portion of the proceeds to buy his first home and now he is going to lose that house also.
Our solicitor says it could take a year to evict them.

But technically the “landlord” didn’t evict them and the new owner hasn’t made any profit from them

The new owner becomes the landlord. If they illegally evict the tenant, they immediately make a profit by virtue of having a property with vacant possession.

@ProfessorSlocombe

CodenameVillanelle

I tip my hat to you, for patience above and beyond the call of fruity ....

thanks! I'm a long term tenant. Never paid rent a day late or done anything to even mildly inconvenience a landlord but this ignorance and vileness towards tenants makes me furious.

@ProfessorSlocombe

CodenameVillanelle

I tip my hat to you, for patience above and beyond the call of fruity ....

Same here. I wonder if some of the pp on this thread can tie their shoelaces.

If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, then no knowledge seems to be lethal ...

I once joked with a friend that I should turn evil, and go around deliberately giving bad and potentially harmful legal advice on the internet. They just said "Who'd notice ?"

Your landlord can give you a roll/on contract and you have to give a moth's notice. You could tell the vendor you need a reduction. Or you pull out.

@CodenameVillanelle
this ignorance and vileness towards tenants makes me furious.
The tenants here haven't behaved decently themselves though. Mostly, landlords don't have to pursue their tenants through the courts to get them to vacate, this is exceptional behaviour. Of course, there may be other circumstances of which we're unaware, but if it's simply to avoid the hassle of moving as we've been told, then their behaviour is very poor imo. Legal, yes, principled, no.

this is exceptional behaviour

We’re living in exceptional times.

Fucking hell, housing threads on MN are a blast, aren't they?

I'm still a few pages behind so there might be worse to come, but among some very stiff competition, my award for Most Things Wrong In A Single Paragraph goes to this beauty:

Not only was the s21 notice issued but the tenancy agreement has ended. They agreed to move out at the date on the tenancy agreement and have not done so. It may be more a civil issue rather than a legal one but it is still the tenants in the wrong here. If they were not in the wrong then the court wouldn't enforce it full stop. The court will enforce it - just it will take forever and cost a fortune.

Congratulations @Bells3032

The tenants here haven't behaved decently themselves though

your point being ?

[quote Bells3032]@S0upertrooper it's not quite the same. The tenancy was for a year ending pm July 5th and the op later said the s21 notice was served in March so plenty of time.

People saying that they're not breaking the law until the court enforces it are wrong. They are breaking the law and living there past their tenancy thats why a court can enforce it. You wouldn't say someone stealing something isnt wrong until a court says so. They're stealing their ll sale and the ops time and money. It is theft.

Furthermore they wouldn't be such asses if they'd give a time frame for the works. I am sure their builder can give them ballpark even if they add a few weeks onto it before telling their ll.[/quote]
Dear God
They are not breaking the law.
You are wrong Totally wrong on that point about others being wrong.
Unless you are talking about another country with different laws then that might apply,but I understand this is in England.
They are not,double not breaking the law

It may be more a civil issue rather than a legal one

😂🤣 More a civil issue than a legal one?!

Mostly, landlords don't have to pursue their tenants through the courts to get them to vacate, this is exceptional behaviour
This!
Most people behave decently and wouldn't be given a S21 notice to vacate and think 'I've got my own property and have been offered several others by the estate agent, but nah, that doesn't suit me so I'll stay put until you take me to court and get the bailiffs in'.

I've never needed a landlord to call in the bailiffs to leave a property.

I can understand in some situations where because of how crap councils are, vulnerable people have to stay put until the bailiffs arrive, but this isn't it. The tenants are choosing to stay somewhere else whilst they do their own house up, have been offered several alternatives and have decided that they'll force the landlord to court because it doesn't suit them to vacate the property.

@Plancina, I know this is all academic now you have wisely decided to back away from this exchange but this ...

they’ve been offered 5 alternative rentals by the same agency who they rent from now, have been offered the cost of their move and the rents all cost the same as their current rent

... seems like quite a good deal. Have you asked if you could take advantage of this offer instead of the tenants?

@ProfessorSlocombe
"The tenants here haven't behaved decently themselves though"
your point being ?

Surely it is still a tenet of civilised society that we behave decently towards one another? The tenants here didn't behave well imo.
In the above quote, I was replying to another poster who said that the ignorance and vileness displayed towards tenants on this thread made her furious. I was pointing out that I don't think the particular tenants in question in this case are deserving of any particular sympathy, at least if they have been represented accurately.

if it's simply to avoid the hassle of moving as we've been told, then their behaviour is very poor imo

But OP is complaining because she wants to avoid the hassle of moving. In fact, she is now proposing to stay beyond the end of her current tenancy for that reason. Why is that fine for her, but not for the tenant?

@Pobblebonk

if it's simply to avoid the hassle of moving as we've been told, then their behaviour is very poor imo

But OP is complaining because she wants to avoid the hassle of moving. In fact, she is now proposing to stay beyond the end of her current tenancy for that reason. Why is that fine for her, but not for the tenant?

I’ve asked exactly this many times on this thread. Nobody’s answered.

Going back a bit:

what happens if it's an accidental landlord, such as they've moved in with a partner and have rented out their property rather than sold it in case the relationship doesn't work out. You're saying they should get their tenant out and let the property sit empty for months while the sale goes through?

Tenants have the same rights, regardless of whether their landlord has a clue or not. This is the problem lots of people have with 'accidental landlords' - they expect tenants to give up their housing rights out of sympathy for the landlord.

What do you think tenants should do if they move in with a new partner? How can tenants ensure they have somewhere to move back to if it doesn't work out?

@LangClegsInSpace
Would you believe me if I told you Bells is actually a landlord.

I think these tenants are selfish - and I have rented 3 properties from private landlords.

Just because something is lawful does mean it is morally right

Still going back a bit -

Give the s21 was issued in March I am. Assuming he put the property on the market prior to the lockdown and had no idea this would all take so long.

I think OP said the s21 was issued 28 or 29? Lockdown came in on 23. So the s21 was issued in the first week of lockdown.

Cast your mind back to how frightening the early weeks of lockdown were and how completely everything shut down. Government advice at the time was that nobody should move house if they could possibly avoid it. It's ludicrous to suggest that any LL issuing a s21 one week into lockdown would have had 'no idea this would all take so long.'

Nobody that stupid is fit to be a landlord.

[quote Shinesweetfreedom]@LangClegsInSpace
Would you believe me if I told you Bells is actually a landlord.[/quote]
Fuck.

@Oliversmumsarmy your posts on this thread are awful, all of them, and show a complete disregard for the law, but this one best reveals your true sentiments:

Given how easy it is to disappear where would the recourse come from if the previous owner disappeared or the company that owned the property went into liquidation.

Who cares if people are illegally evicted from their home as long as landlords have the ability to evade the law?

Really?

@Pobblebonk @Alsohuman it’s a totally different scenario for the OP - she will have to pay thousands in extra rent if these tenants refuse to move whereas they’re not losing any money - they’ve been offered the cost of the move, and they’re paying rent anyway in the current house and will be until their house is ready.
Also, it’s not their house, they’ve been served with an S21 and have refused to leave. They may not yet be legally wrong but they clearly aren’t acting decently and are being selfish.

Too many people with a second house think "being a landlord" is an old Norse expression that translates as "money for old rope" - certainly in England. It's not. It's a business. And if this thread is a fair demonstration of the average business acumen in England at the moment, then we are well fucked as a nation because it's clear we haven't got a clue. No wonder we were able to sign a ferry contract with a company with no boats. It was overseen by people from this thread blaming the passengers, or the sea or the land.

Very well said!