downsizing - too many questions

[AlmaWhittaker]

We've decided to downsize a little early (kids are just 18, 16, 14) but it's more to do with wanting to move from big house and big garden in the country to the city where we both work. We're in the process of buying a smaller apartment in the city and selling our house.

Lots of reasons to move.

Pro move: We hate our current neighbour,
Con: but obviously we risk having more than one awful neighbour so that seems like a terrible reason.

Pro move: We hate spending every spare moment trying to keep the garden under control. Neither of us likes gardening (anymore, I did go through a phase of growing veg etc but I just don't have the time anymore).
Pro: So, a tiny balcony instead.
??? Oh god, will we regret it?

Pro: We want less house to clean, less diy to do.
Con: Oh god, we're reducing our living space by about a half.

Pro: We want to cut out a lot of driving. This can only be a good thing. We aim to go from 2 cars to one.
Con: can I really live without a car? I work mainly from home and just a day or two where I'd need to get a bus.

Just wondering if anyone has done this with so many doubts? When I tell myself all the reasons we're moving, they make sense, but then I look around our existing spacious house/garden and worry about how to dry clothes/fit all our things in tiny cupboards. Also, ds 18 has already left home (uni) but comes home every 3 or 4 weeks for the weekend and for holidays too. In the new arrangement he'll have to share with ds2 (14) whereas they didn't have to share before. Is that asking for trouble, or pushing ds1 out?

But I'm craving a bit of city fun. The novelty of home delivery food, being able to walk to cinema, bars, restaurants. DS being able to walk to school instead of me driving him is a HUGE plus for both of us. But but but...

Would love some stories of your experiences (I'm afraid everyone else dreams of doing the opposite, of finding a house and a garden for retirement, but we've experienced the sheer work involved in that lifestyle and know we don't want that). We're 54 and 49.

I think you are being very unrealistic regarding your DC.
They dont just "go"
They will be back from Uni for the whole summer plus holidays.
If its the end of year they will move out and need to find somewhere to store their stuff until they move again.
DD has moved back until she finds a job.
Even with decluttering ,she has clothes/books and it filled our car.
You would need to consider storage but then your DC wont have access to their stuff.
Room sharing ? Great until one of them needs to revise ,my SIL has this problem currently as her DC share.
Its really not fair on them.
What happens when they are early 20s and have partners ?
I think you are just considering yourself and not your DC.
However Im not really sure why you are asking as you have already made up your mind

Drying clothes. I moved from a house where I could dry everything outside, weather permitting, to one with no garden and it was a nightmare as I hate living with wet washing indoors. There were five of us in a very small house so lots of washing and no space. I bought a condenser dryer which dried the big stuff and a heated airer fromLakeland for the stuff that couldn't be tumbled. I took some organisation but it was manageable.

I live in the city and there really is no need for a car. When my current car finally stops working I won't replace it and I'll use taxis or hire cars. Storage is an issue. In the small house we had a garage and it was rammed with stuff as we had massively downsized but ran out of energy before the move and had boxes that we didn't know what to do with. A storage unit might be a good idea and you can continue use to sort through at your leisure.

I currently live in a huge house and a bit of general untidness is absorbed in how vast the living room is. A couple of books, games consoles, mugs and shoes left lying around are really obvious in a small lounge. It depends how much you care.

Good luck.

I think your planned changes are too drastic. Our first house had a little sunny courtyard garden with raised beds ... no trouble to maintain but still somewhere nice to sit with friends or dry washing.

Yes, we've put an offer on an apartment so we know what we have to adapt to. It needs a lot of work so we're trying to figure out where e.g. washing machine goes, etc. It's small but has quite a lot of storage, I think, but compared to what we're used to it'll be hard. I didn't really start this thread looking for storage ideas per se, but more for reassurance that it's not going to be terrible

I guess I'm one of the worst people to help because I hate the city for more than a day and absolutely love the large house and garden in the country. My DCs have long moved out, but three times we've had them back through various life traumas including serious illness and they've been back for months at a time.

You can't hang on to an impractical home just in case something like that happens though and my best advice for making it work is that once you move you cut all thoughts of how you used to live and wholeheartedly embrace the positives of your new lifestyle.

My comment about storage comes from having a small flat with a small balcony. The coffee table was a trunk so fold up chairs and cushions were stored there when not in use. There was a cupboard in the hallway with hot pipes. It worked as a utility room with space for the ironing board, mop, vacuum etc. The combined washing machine went in there and we put a few lines above for drying and airing small items. The washer dryer was fine, although obviously it only dries half the washed load or thereabouts because of the extra weight when wet. You just plan around it though, have only what you need and become quite ingenious to fit your space comfortably.

We made use of drawer divans and high level shelves and it was absolutely ok. People live in caravans and boats and manage well, perhaps not with teenagers though but as you say, they have lots to gain, so they will also have to adapt properly.

One thing that really wouldn't worry me is the car and transport issue, that should be main thing that cities are very strong on and you'll have the pleasure of so much right out of your front door. You'll probably find it quite cathartic, just don't stress while you're in the adjustment period and don't look back. Embrace your liberation

I think it is key also that the OP is not in the UK. I think flats are often poorly designed in the UK- a friend had one that had no storage at all, not even for the hoover! I live in Italy and our flat is not huge but it has too big storage cupboards, a cellar, a communal bike storage space and high ceilings (all our wardrobes are 3 metres tall and we use the top half for storage).

*two big!

I think you are being very unrealistic regarding your DC.
They dont just "go

This

You realistically have to think of this as an apartment for 5 adults.

Yes as you say your teens just chill out in their bedroom but they have a bedroom. In the flat they won’t have one to themselves

Whilst the idea is great and for smaller children it is doable the ones who say they have done something similar don’t have 4 more adults to share the space with.

What happens when Dss bring people/gfs back for a weekend.

Just being able to fit a bed in a room doesn’t really provide space for a dc.

I am all for people living in the city as opposed to living in the countryside but I think a 3 bed flat is too drastic a change and doesn’t provide space for everyone.

I think you have this plan in your mind that when the dc go off to uni they will be gone for good whilst their plans might be completely different.

You'd think I was torturing my poor darlings by making 5 of us live in a 3-bedroom flat. Are there not millions of people doing the same or living in even smaller places? Did I mention the DC are dying to get to the city?

When we first thought of moving, it was with a view to buying now and moving there when last DC had moved out (in 3 years time) but we changed our minds because the DC were thrilled at the idea. We're all prepared to get rid of unnecessary stuff. We're all aware we'll have to be extra tidy and organised. I'm worried about laundry mostly. Thanks to anyone who has offered ideas on this.
@mostlydrinkstea "I bought a condenser dryer which dried the big stuff and a heated airer fromLakeland for the stuff that couldn't be tumbled. I took some organisation but it was manageable."
I'm going to look into both of these ideas and see where we could fit them. Now for the really naive question: what stuff can't be tumbled? I'm such a novice :) Maybe I should start another thread about dryers cause I don't have a clue...

As for having space for DC to bring partners and children, well, no! What a waste. Maybe that's why there's such a housing crisis - all the old folk keeping a few spare bedrooms in case the children and grandchildren might come and visit. I'll keep a fund (all the petrol money I'm saving, perhaps) so that I can pay for mine to stay in a nearby hotel. My own mother lives in a large house and can't move out because she's been there too long. We visit and stay with her once a year. My other siblings don't stay because they live nearby. I think we're the only ones to ever use those bedrooms. Such a waste. I hope some family with lots of children buys our house and enjoys the garden and space as much as we did. Meanwhile, we're ready to move on.

I only bought a dryer last year despite people telling me that with 5 of us in a flat it was essential. (It certainly is useful but not essential). I dry everything except woolen (although mine has a rack for doing that but I don't trust it). I agree with you about wasting space. I actually quite like the feeling that we use every room all the time but we still have people to stay. Two of my children share but they don't mind guests using that room and going in with their big brother for a few days. We have pull out beds and a sofa bed for just those occasions.

As for having space for DC to bring partners and children, well, no! What a waste. Maybe that's why there's such a housing crisis - all the old folk keeping a few spare bedrooms in case the children and grandchildren might come and visit

I am talking about the ones that live there wanting to bring girl friends over.

I think whilst your DC might be excited the reality could end up being not as great as they think.

Equally I think you have this idea that all your dc will be gone as soon as they go to uni.
I think the reality might also not match the aspirations.

What would happen if they didnt go to university.

Would you still have them move out at 18

Yes people do live in apartments with multiple people but ho @w many have moved from large country houses and had to cull down their stuff just to fit in.

Sounds bonkers to me & I agree with @Oliversmumsarmy. Your DC's will come back from Uni & may still with you until they are in their late 20's. You could have 2 strapping 6footers sharing a room......and the their are girlfriends that might want to bring back.

I'm currently moving to a larger 4 bed place as my 3 are 12,14 & 15 & because the middle one is a girl & the boys wont share I need more room not less.

Bizarre

"bizarre"?
How judgemental are you?

Just because it doesn't suit your lifestyle doesn't mean it is wrong. OP can clearly see some benefits for her in being in the action with less of a property around her. So why not?

So what if it doesn't work out too, she can move to a lovely suburban terraceand maintain a garden. Also fine. It is not exactly catastrophic.

Some people are very risk averse

In principle I don’t think there is anything wrong in what you are doing if you were getting a 4 bed flat or house (or 3 bed house that you could do a loft conversion or extension).
This isn’t about people’s lifestyles but the reality of 5 adults + gfs living in a confined space with no privacy.

I think op’s biggest problem is thinking that in 3 years time all her children will be gone and the reality is they will not.

They will be living at home and bringing friends home after a night out

A "lovely suburban terrace" is a very British thing though. Where I live you're basically out in the countryside in the middle of nowhere or in a flat. Maybe it's the same for her?

The reality is that people cope. I never had a family home I could take friends back to, or boomerang. I didn’t have a lovely spacious home with a garden, or somewhere central with everything on the doorstep. My parents’ choices were awful for me, but I had to get on with it. For this family, it’ll be swings and roundabouts with a pay off for less space.

Kirsty Allsopp tells first time buyers who want room for friends and family to stay that they’re not buying their home for other people. There are ways and means when the occasion demands and as the OP says there are always hotels if it comes to that.

I’m older than these people and not wanting to make the same choices at all, but wouldn’t ever say it’s bizarre because we don’t all want the same life. It all sounds well thought through with a few wobbles and if the reality doesn’t suit then they’ll just have to move again with the advantage of a wider experience.

As I said before the most important thing is to embrace the next living situation and not look back through rose tinted glasses. It won’t be 100% perfect, but will bring new positives.

Kirsty Allsopp tells first time buyers who want room for friends and family to stay that they’re not buying their home for other people

Firstly op isn’t a ftb and we are not talking about having friends and family to stay, we are talking about providing her children with a home.

Personally I would like a penthouse flat over looking the Thames but in reality I have to think of the fact I have children and pets and a Dp who doesn’t like heights.

Unless you live completely on your own no one can buy a home just for their needs and wants unless they are very very selfish. Other people and things have to be taken in to consideration

And yes I am sure people will cope.

My family lived with mothers parents, her 2 siblings and their spouses, me and another child in a 2 bed 1 boxroom council house with an outside toilet and no bathroom.

Yes we coped but in the end everyone hated everyone else. That hatred has lasted decades and a few have gone completely NC.

Wow there are some judgemental people on here. I'm totally with you OP and all of your family are the same. God, how on earth do people think that those who live in Manhattan, Brooklyn, Paris or Berlin cope? They are happy to sacrifice space for lifestyle. And I'm 100% with you about the unused space, I think it is ridiculous to have "spare rooms" in a house or flat for people who stay once a year. I have a friend who has negotiated a rate with a beautiful hotel at the end of her road for her family to stay - and even then she said she can count on one hand the number of times she has used it. I've noticed that since we have all had DC my family visit less often and then only stay one night as it is a hassle with DC.

Look at minimalist living on Pinterest of google it - there are loads of sites devoted to it.
I put everything in my dryer (I live in Ireland and it is always raining, I would not survive without a tumble dryer). Just make sure to only put like in with like and you can dry anything (I dry silk and wool and sports gear in there).

Good luck with your move, I'm sure you will all be very happy. The key is to ruthlessly declutter (buy the Marie Kondo book) and get your DC to declutter their own things. Then take sure you have wonderful built in storage in every room and in your hallway (I have built-ins in my hallway and it keeps all the shoe and bag clutter).

Also look up sites such as apartment therapy - they have great storage ideas.

@Oliversmumsarmy the other people referred to are not family, they’re the potential future girl and boyfriends of DCs and we’re not talking about overcrowding an extended family either. We’re talking about the OP and her DH all being in agreement and discussing how it will work for them, not one individual making an unpopular choice and overruling family. It’s all there in the full thread.

I wasn’t referring to the other people needing a room I was referring to ops own children being provided with their own room.

Any friend or gf would surely share their bedroom if they had one.

Referring to how people cope who live in tiny apartments in New York etc

How many have downsized from a large country house to a small apartment with 3 teenagers.

Even a quick google suggested people who have more children than bedrooms who lived in cities either rented bigger apartments for a few years or moved to houses when the children got bigger

Oliversmumsarmy and Hadthesnip2

I think you two are the bonkers ones! OP wants to downsize and you are telling her to break into the loft it's hilarious.

@AlmaWhittaker go for it and your poor, very hard done by children will have to make do with a bed in a bedroom in a flat in a city, BooHoo And as an added bonus if they go to the Laundromat for you they might meet their forever partner
Thinking back to the 80's and button jeans advert....... swoon!

It sounds to me like the footprint is not going to be very different to a 3 bed house, and OP I agree that it is nice to use all the rooms in the house more fully rather than using half in the daytime and the other half at night. It does seem a little early to be anticipating a 14 year old moving out though, and you could have years of them being back between June and October, at the very least.

I think the main challenge is the order of it all. Some people's ideal is to stay in their "forever home" as long as possible. A minimalist's ideal might be to pare down their belongings to such a point that the empty space they've created becomes redundant, and then they joyfully move to the nirvana of a smaller place. Buying a smaller home early, before you've achieved that redundancy and with teenagers still around, is more of a challenge. And this is about how you live & move in the space together, not whether you have 1 jumper or 5. Eg having a TV in at least one of the bedrooms means it works better as a second "living" area. Take your flat as a clean slate and buy the right furniture for your needs and the space - don't try to cram in as much of your existing furniture as will fit. If you have a long low bookcase, replace it with a narrow low bookcase if you can reduce your books enough, or a tall narrow bookcase if you can't. Mount pictures and shelves on walls so they don't take up floor/surface space. Get a storage bed or really solid underbed drawers.

I don't think anyone is talking about GFs moving in, just whether the teens feel they have space to bring friends round to hang out, and feel welcome enough to come back for the hols or visit. OP much as they are enthusiastic about the move, I would be keeping an eye on whether they do.

I think you two are the bonkers ones! OP wants to downsize and you are telling her to break into the loft

Because she doesn’t have the room.

As I said in principle the idea of moving into the city when children are teens is a great idea. But op needs another bedroom and one more communal space for it to work.

Having lived in an overcrowded house and seen the fall out I can see how these things turn out.

I think the children are excited about living in the city but I think they are probably imagining their current living arrangements when they have had a day out in the city and being able to chill out in their own room in the evening.

Lots of food for thought here. I'm aware that I've never had 20-something kids with partners and g'kids so am listening to the points being made (but I particularly liked what someone said about making a deal with a local hotel). Some random thoughts:

• When I was a teen in a huge house, I rarely had friends over. It was too far from anything. I didn't mind though. It was just normal. I saw friends in school.
• When I was in uni/in my 20s, I always chose to live close to the centre of cities in (horrible) cramped flats. Loved it. Always had friends to stay/sleep on sofa and rarely went to their houses in the suburbs.
• DC currently have plenty of room but rarely have friends over (middle of nowhere)
• DS has finished 1st year uni and is home already but keeps popping back to his uni city. Home is for sleeping/reading/gaming, city is for everything else. He wants to get a summer job. He'll have to go there for that because there's nothing here.
• DS1 and 2 get on very very well. Never argue. Play computer together, hang out. The space they currently take up when together is 2 chairs at a desk with all the screens + 3-minute darts into the kitchen to load up on food. They're often in each others' rooms even when they have their own rooms.
• We've always gone on camping holidays rather than huge villa with pool holidays, so that says something about the kind of family we are, I think.
• DCs are excited and want to move
• DS1 thinks it's a good idea, but also feels it doesn't really concern him. He's happy to share when he's home. Maybe he/I are not thinking far ahead enough but that's the current feeling.
• Even though we'll be further from DS1's uni city, it'll be much easier to access so he can come and go as he pleases instead of asking me to pick him up from the train.
• House prices are not ridiculous here so DC can reliably expect to get a job and buy a house when they're ready.
• DH grew up in a tiny apartment. We're moving to a palace compared to that.
• We'll be financially much better off after the move, so can help out DC more, as well as avail of all the city has to offer.

Sorry, this is turning into an essay. In any case, it's useful to mull over these things but we're not going to change our minds about the move. Small house with attic space and/or small garden/courtyard is not what we're looking for, even if it is the ideal for some posters.

We have been decluttering already and it's so liberating. DC had done some too, more to do. I'm a book lover but I've come to realise that I rarely reread the books I've loved. I'm going to liberate them to free libraries. I'm consciously trying to get rid of and stop buying any more stuff that we don't need. I might actually read Marie Kondo.

Meanwhile, I've been reading about washer-dryers, heated dryers, and other solutions. We might try to fit in two machines. Also an automatic dehumidifier in the bathroom. Or maybe we'll go for one machine with a 6kg drying capacity and see how we manage with that. Thinking about making one trip to the launderette every weekend to do bigger items. DS can do that instead of cutting the lawn and yes, maybe he'll meet his future Levis-wearing gf there

Peace and feng shui to all

I think you always work around your circumstances.. if you have a loft or shed where the dcs stuff will go when they come home then all the better. But everyone will have to be tidy or it’ll drive you mad.

I’ve lived in big house, old cottage, normal 4 bed, and a flat, and the flat is easy peasy needless to say, but there’s no room for anyone to stay. I’d rather have rooms for extra stuff. I had to use the boot of the car to store things as I ran out of room. !!!