Flat vs house – settle a debate between DH and me

[butterbeanplant]

Hi all,

I would really appreciate your advice as we’re kinda stuck!

So DH and I are wanting to buy a place in south London. We’re looking for a 2bed, 2bath place. Budget of £500k (so we stay under FTB stamp duty rate). We don’t have kids yet and don’t expect them for a few years (fingers crossed!!)

Problem is we have wildly different views on what to buy…

If DH wants an investment, couldn't you just get a project? That way, you could add value but live in an area that you're happy with.

House!

We bought a flat as it's what we could afford and 2 years on it's the biggest regret I have. Want a house, hate the lease hold, management company awful, reliant on others to tidy communal areas, no rights over doing things, and it's hard to sell. Don't waste your stamp duty exemption on a crappy lease!!

Freehold every time!

Having lived in both I’d go for house, it’s so lovely to have a little outdoor space of your own to sit in on a nice day. I hated living so close to other people, smoke wafting in your windows, noise, paying over £100 a month service charge, parking wars, neighbours clattering up and down stairs and leaving junk in communal areas.

House and freehold every time.

Thx all! So many useful views. House wins comprehensively. Consensus seems to be that at our age any flat would be very temporary and the costs involved in the next move who outweight benefits of 2-3yrs. Fair?

We had a choice between flat in W London zone 2 or house in SW London zone 3 with our budget.

We went with zone 3 house and never regretted it. We had one attached neighbour and in 8 years we only heard noise when they dog sat (2 different owners).

Loved having outside space and the calm feel of the area when coming home from work.

Dh didn't want leasehold either and he was 100% right to insist.

A good compromise could be a maisonette with garden (share of freehold if possible). You should be able to afford something in zone 3 (eg, Tooting, just a couple of tube stops from Balham or Brockley if looking in SE). If you get a first floor maisonette then you might be able to extend into the loft, although this is very much dependent on getting permission from the other freeholder, which is never guaranteed. Purpose-built maisonettes that are essentially a house with two separate floors are very different from a block of flats, and if you have the share of freehold then you shouldn’t have to worry about service charges and ground rent.

I guess it comes down to how likely you can afford moving costs easily in another 2-3 years time.

Personally, if you aren't 100% certain you'd want to stay in Catford when you had DCs, so may well end up moving when pregnant anyway or feeling 'trapped' in an area you don't like, it seems pointless to buy a house now in an area you don't want to live in, in order to have extra space you don't need now, and by the time you need it, you'll be looking to move areas anyway.

Have you thought about out side London and commuting in now? If you think you might move out when you have DCs, and are prepared to move away from your work and social life now, when not do the bigger move earlier?

Be very wary about moving to an area you don't want to live in as it's an investment and finding you have are esentially trapped by that choice later as it's not 'logical' to move again.

House House House House

Always lots of threads on here from people stuck in 2 bed flats with DC and running out of space. If you were early 20s maybe a flat, but mid 30s? You'd be mad not to go for a house if you have the option!

@OrdinarySnowflake you would say to move to an area we like rn, even if it means going out of London? can you explain more why you think house shouldn't be looked at as an investment?

Well, what with Brexit looming, a no deal might wipe a third off the value, so at this point, I wouldn't buy a house you don't want to live in now, in the hope it's a better investment in the future - you might have a few shitty years livign where you don't want to live, and then still end up owing more than it's worth when you come to move. (Or be stuck there)

Either - buy a property that is right for the way you want to live now, and hope if you do need to sell in 2/3/4 years time, you won't lose as much as you would have done renting in that time, or buy something you know you'll be happy to still be living in 10/15 years from now. (Which yes, if you are planning DCs, means looking at schools! Several of our London friends have DCs in year 4 about to go into year 5 and are lookign to move in the next 12 months so they are in a new house before they apply for secondary school)

A house is to be lived in. If they make you money when you sell, great. And it's great that if you are able to live in it long term, by the time you are hitting your late 50s, you will have paid off the mortgage and not need to pay out mortgage or rent. But don't focus too much on the investment side, and not enough on what the purpose of a house/flat is, to be your home.

Oh and yes, if you think you might want to move out of London when you have a baby, I would really think about buying in that sort of area now, so you get used to the commute back into London for work, you make local friends before having DCs, do DIY and get the property as you like it before you have a baby to factor in.

Don't buy an investment unless you can afford to live elsewhere, buy a home. Think about the life you and DH want to have, now and in the next 5/10 years.

Can you think of any reason why we should go for the flat in a more buzzy area?

Yes. A very good reason. ‘That’s how you want to live NOW’

I moved out of London to buy a house because the alternative was to buy a flat in London I really regret it, wish I’d bought the flat

Leasehold can be an arse - just check your paperwork before buying.

Neighbours can be an arse whether you’re in a flat OR a house

However, your DH seems determined to buy ‘fir the future’ and not for ‘now’ so you’re going to have to compromise or separate!

If I were you right now I’d want to buy a flat in a vibrant location, not a house in Suburbia...but if YOU want to move out of London when you have kids (it’s not necessary London is great for kids) then it’s sensible (yawn) to look at that now. Where would you LIKE to live? Could you buy a ‘do up’ or a house you could rent out and keep renting in central London?

There are more than the two
options here! It don’t make the mistake of going fir a middle ground that’s neither the central flat that you want now NOR the house you want to raise your family in.

FLAT.....the 3 rules of property buying - location, location, location
Brixton is a great place to live!

I agree with moving out of London. Chelmsford is a popular place for people commuting into London, and while still expensive, you can get a lot more bang for your buck. Look at this one for example - close to station as well : www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-80242802.html

Here's a 4 bedroom with large garden for £395,000! www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-82730498.html

See, your DH isn't even buying for the future, if it's unlikely you want to raise your DCs in somewhere like Catford long term.

Buy for the life you want to live now or the life you want to live long term, the Catford house option sounds like buying a house that doesn't suit you now or in the future, but might be a better long term investment.

Sorry - had to post this one - look at all those stunning period features. I'd buy it if I had £500,000 going spare. www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-70894132.html

Ooh, are we playing out of London ideas?! How about Sevenoaks - under a mile to the station (20-25mins to London bridge), 3 beds etc.

Sevenoaks again, bit smaller

Tonbridge - 4 beds, walk to the station, but longer commute.

Tonbridge again - 3 beds, near station, pretty barn conversion.

@WoofWoofMooWoof - that's lovely! See OP - if you aren't going to live in a cool area that suits your lifestyle now, and having to have a longer commute, why not move out to a commuter belt and at least have a more family home type house.

I can't see the point of the Catford house, go for the cool flat or the family home, the inbetween seems a waste.

@OrdinarySnowflake - that barn conversion is sooooo nice .

Btw OP - Chelmsford is a a large, buzzing place also.

House. I'm in a flat in South London now - 2 bed, 2 bath - and with one toddler and a baby on the way we're desperately trying to move out to a house.

If your DH is set on an investment, could you consider buying a house to let out, and renting a central flat for yourselves?
It's a bit of extra hassle, but keeps your options open if you're not really sure where you want to be.

If the house option in Catford isnt' a "forever home" then really it comes down to a) which type of property would you enjoy living in more for the next 5 years and b) which is likely to have risen most in value (or held it's value/rental potential more if Brexit causes a property price fall).

The Catford house would mean you would be able to cope for longer if you were 'trapped' by negative equity and had to wait for the market to pick up to sell, the Brixton flat might have a stronger rental potential if you can't sell and decide to rent out the flat and rent another property outside London.