Flat vs house – settle a debate between DH and me

[butterbeanplant]

Hi all,

I would really appreciate your advice as we’re kinda stuck!

So DH and I are wanting to buy a place in south London. We’re looking for a 2bed, 2bath place. Budget of £500k (so we stay under FTB stamp duty rate). We don’t have kids yet and don’t expect them for a few years (fingers crossed!!)

Problem is we have wildly different views on what to buy…

house for me. So many of my friends have had complete nightmares with neighbours from hell qnd crap management companies that I wouldn't risk it personally.

House, freehold. Never a leasehold anything unless there is absolutely no option at all.
For the reasons stated above.

Definitely, freehold house every single time. I work in property law and wouldn't ever buy a leasehold flat personally. Service charges, rules and regulations, inability to make alterations without jumping through hoops, limited ability to increase value. With a house you can still have a lovely life but be somewhere where you have much more freedom and control.

House- I fbyoubhave kids they love the garden, summers of paddling pool, sand pit, trampoline etc whilst you. Can stay in the house doing cooking, house work etc, but still go to parks etc when you go out of the house
You can extend, Male
More
Money in a house plus not bound by leasehold or others owning the freehold too

House every single time for me (after having two kids who are still young - 10&7 they're always in the garden

Does inner London have any "peppercorn rent" type flats? You each have own front door, usually only two flats, and you each own the others freehold. One peppercorn is paid once per year ( no money or actual peppercorns change hands).

I'd go for house over block of flats with communal charges, but peppercorn rent places in the hustle and bustle over a house.

Also try looking east on the Central Line. You could def get a house in Woodford for your budget although probably too suburban for you. If you're lucky South Woodford (nice high street, restaurants and a few bars) or perhaps Leytonstone or Leyton which are historically grittier but much nicer now. Then you could be in to town to socialise really quickly, particularly once the Elizabeth Line is up and running as you can switch on to it at Stratford.

there are some peppercorn flats but they can be a bloody nightmare when e.g. the roof needs replacing and the neighbour can't or won't find the money.

House and freehold every time! I've just moved from a leasehold flat to a house - no noisy neighbours, no service charges, garden - it's marvellous . The old flat has been sold and my old ll has been waiting almost 5 months now for the leaseholder to supply the information needed to complete. In the meanwhile he still has to pay the mortgage and council tax on a place standing empty, plus the buyer is threatening to withdraw. No problem like that with freehold.

House.
Definitely a house.
I am in a flat and everyday I fantasise about having somewhere to hang washing out to dry and not having to share bins (communal bins are always overflowing and the recycling contaminated because people just put any old crap in the recycling bins). I dream of having an outdoor space (just a tiny yard will do) so I could have a little shed to store stuff like xmas decorations or suitcases. Or an attic to put them in instead.
House
House
House

Oh and in a house you won't have someone with exotic pets above you that need live food. Live food that grows too big to be fed to said pet and then escapes into your flat.

And you won't have someone who lives below you that crawls around pretending to be Gollum.

Or a drunk neighbour who tells the taxi driver to buzz you until you let her in at 3 am. Same neighbour collapses on stairs and looses control of her bladder needing your help to make it into bed.

Or another neighbour who drinks too much who needs help to get to A&E.

More weirdly specific but real life experiences!

We bought a fabulous two bed flat in Finsbury Park, because I couldn’t imagine living in Harringay. 2 kids and 6 years later we bought a house in Harringay. If we’d bought the house when we bought the flat, our mortgage would be £200k less.

We were in the same boat but now a few years down the line. We're in a much-loved top floor flat with no lift, parking or garden and one bedroom... DS1 is 3 and DS2 is due in a fortnight. Couldn't imagine life in the suburbs when we moved here 2 years ago but now kicking myself for not accepting their merits sooner! Hope you can find the right compromise, good luck.

House and freehold no contest! It’d be worth paying extra for taxis to/from where you socialise to have the freedom to do whatever work you may or may not want to do to the house without jumping through the freeholders hoops. Also having your own private garden is priceless.

reading evey word closely!!

Can you think of any reason why we should go for the flat in a more buzzy area?

House everytime!

We did the flat thing, we had to deal with nightmare tenant in another flat, damp issues the management company refused to deal with, unexpected bills for unnecessary work to the building, rising service charges that we tried and failed to appeal. It was nightmarish. You also are still very restricted by the lease, we weren't allowed to hang washing on our balcony or had to ask permission to have a pet. You also need to make sure you sell on with a decent amount of years left on the lease.

I love the freedom of owning a house.

How much more is a house in a buzzy area?

I agree with your husband

Another one for house!
It’s been so nice relaxing in the garden during the evenings. Coffee in the morning, a drink in the evening.
Even before we had kids, we loved having people over for bbqs or just spending time outside.
I’ve lived in a flatshares in buzzy areas of London with friends and honestly, it was amazing but when I settled down, I wanted the outdoors access too.

It will be so expensive to move again when you have children.

A decent sized flat in a buzzy area can be good , but only if you have share of freehold. I’d want outside space too. Two beds minimum.

I work near Brockley and really love it. I'd buy a house there. It's got the Overground and also a train that takes 10 minutes to get to London Bridge.

My DD has a flat with share of freehold in Balham, she loves having a very short commute and living in a buzzy area. She has done well financially, she looked at houses but the ones in her price range weren't as nice.

Transport actually pretty good down here in SE London! Brockley is on the overground and the last train is more like 12 (like the tube) or 1.30am to New Cross Gate.

There are actually lots of young professionals and families in this area. How old are you both?

I would say you'd be hard pushed to get a 2 bed flat in Balham or Brixton for your budget though, unless it's a shoebox, likewise a house in Brockley. I think you're looking at more like a flat in Brockley or a house in Catford (don't know Lee).

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz waaay beyond our price range!

@georgialondon I think the whole of MN agrees with him

I'll put my hand up and say that the first flat I bought was my bachelorette pad a minute from the Thames in zone 2. DH lived nearby when we first met. We did absolutely love living there and only moved further out when we got together and I stopped seeing the appeal of clubbing 2-3 nights a week

I think part of the reason you're getting more 'house' answers is because of the demographics on Mumsnet.

In terms of areas that would be future-proof, LB of Sutton has the lowest crime rate in London + the state schools top national league tables. The last trains leave at 00:30 from Victoria. If you stay out later, then you'd need to take the tube to Morden + £10 cab/a bus. You could comfortably get a 3-bed family house in Sutton, Carshalton or Cheam (north Cheam probably as Cheam Village is pretty posh and expensive).

The borough of Kingston is also super safe and has top top schools (statistically v similar to Sutton) but it's posh and so more expensive. Kingston itself has a great town centre on the Thames and quite a lot of uni students so it's pretty lively. The last train Waterloo to Surbiton is at 1:05 (or 00:42 to Norbiton). Not sure how far 500k would stretch but maybe a 2-up 2-down with some luck?

Bromley is also a safe borough with very good schools. Price-wise it's between Sutton and Kingston. It will also have trains after midnight and Victoria-Bromley trains are super quick.

I’m going to go against the grain and say flat, I’m in a flat and I absolutely love it, less to clean (why would you want more rooms/space than you need that’ll just sit there gathering dust?) I love the compactness of it, it’s cosy and I don’t feel isolated from the city, late night shops and takeaways are within easy reach if I need a pint of milk at 1am, cute bars and restaurants a 5 min walk away. I can’t imagine anything more dull and depressing than life in suburbia with nothing but more houses around