Elderly mother moving in with this

[potofdreams1]

Fully realise this is fraught with various problems and pitfalls but would appreciate thoughts/advice.

Elderly DM is 75 and really declining mentally and physically. She lives a good 30 minutes away and as I work can only get across to her about twice a week. A few emergencies have really emphasised how far away she lives. She lives in a bungalow but is finding it very difficult to manage.

I live in an average sized house but am lucky enough to have a huge garden.

DM has suggested selling her place and we build some sort of granny annexe for her in our garden.
This seems like a good idea on many levels - closer to us, able to support and can keep an eye on her. Take away worry of maintaining her house.

However, I have DB who whilst living 3 hours away and therefore not able to help out, obviously still needs to part of any agreement. He agrees we need to consider options but isn't keen on having her live with/near him. Also DM's life is here.

DM's total assets including the house are well below IHT threshold but I still need to be aware of
other implications and while I can't afford to shoulder all costs, the last thing I want is to be seen as profiting from her.

One suggestion (hers) was selling her house and proceeds:
One third to me
One third to DB
One third retained by DM.

So from my part I would build annexe. I also take on any care she needs; although if more is needed she still has some capital left to pay for it with.

Can you throw all reservations/points at me please!

Have also posted in 'money' as
Wasn't sure if best topic

How much are you budgeting for cost of building an annexe? What about time? How long will it take?

How long will your mum truly have the use of such an annexe? Might she need more care than you can provide in future? How will you / she fund a care home if she needs it?

If you're funding a build from the sale of those house, where will your mum live while there's nothing built?

Will it really be an annexe - kitchen, separate entrance etc for the purposes of council tax or is it really just an extension to your house? (That's why your brother will be up in arms btw).

If you are on good terms with your db, ask him what he suggests. I would personally think it should be as you describe but your dm then pays a nominal rent, enough to cover her food, increased utilities, increased council tax etc. She is then responsible for paying for personal care needs over and above what you can provide but you and your brother need to be aware that in the event of her needing care less than 7 years from the date of the house sale, they can take the money she's gifted each of you into account. It is probably a good idea to engage a solicitor at this stage to sort out wills and power of attorney so it's sorted

Have you found out if your local planning is likely to pass the build ? Also some areas will allow the build but will put some clause in to say you can never sell it as an individual property. You area will have its selling point so you may well end up being greatly out of pocket.

If she goes into care you and your brother will need to fund it as giving you money or paying for an annex could be seen as deprivation of assets. I'd say that was your main consideration.

anniehm
The 7 years relates to gifts and inheritance tax, inface the LA can go back a lot further for 'deprivation of assets'.

It's possible - probable even - that adding a garden annexe suitable as a dwelling will cost a lot more than you think, but will add very little to the value of your home. If it's spoiling the garden it might even take away value. If it were attached, it would be better for resale value, but there are downsides to that for you. Get a couple of estate agents round and ask them.

Stuff like council tax could also be complicated - your mum may have to pay for the separate dwelling, and you'd need PP which might be difficult to get as a permanent residence. It could be a big job getting utilities out to it. It might be hard to heat.

On the face of it, your mum's suggestion does not sound good. She should be paying for the build, especially if it adds little value, and the rest of her assets should be retained by her, not randomly given away to your brother.

Hi. I think I would strongly advise either keeping your Mum in her own bungalow with health care support and a cleaner & gardener or to consider renting a supported flat in an older persons retirement/care complex near to you.
My DF went into a supported flat following his stroke as my DM had vascular dementia. He was quite a cheerful, independant soul and enjoyed having his own space plus on call support to remind him re meds etc. The flat had its own community and restaurant and he made friends with several people.
I would strongly consider these options before building an annexe as you have to fully aware of what taking on the complete care of your DM will involve - not just now when things are going well but in the future when needs will become more complex eg. Bathing, toileting/ changing, feeding etc.
From your OP it seems like your own brother does not wish to be too involved so this would fall squarely on your shoulders. I have seen first hand how elderly parents personalities can change with long term illness/frailty- particularly with regards to dementia and Alzheimer's. My own DM was aggressive and rude with us and actually hit myself and my sister and my DBS son - her teenage grandson. My DAunt had Alzheimer's and my cousin ended up having to use a specialist care home as she could not cope with her care and working and looking after her own family. I think it also can have a negative affect on your own family if you are struggling to cope later on.
Obviously you know what is best for your own family and your DM may have a much longer and healthier life. It would also be lovely for your children to be around their grandmother regularly.
If you go ahead with the annexe, your suggestion of how to split the proceeds of the house sale sounds fair, although your DB would be actually receiving a windfall whereas you would only benefit if/when you sell your house in later years.

As stated above be very aware of ' deprivation of assets'. Friends of ours were given £150,000 from their mum. Mum had to go into care 3 years later and Social Services recovered every penny from them!

Thank you for all your replies.
Was aware of Deprivation of Assets though for some reason I thought that was time limited. Obviously not! That was kind of the thinking behind her keeping a third so she could pay for at home care if/when needed.

Also yes to the poster who raised point about cost of building annexe wouldn't be realised in terms of increasing value of house. That
Would need to be part of discussion with DB as far from benefitting, we could actually lose out by paying it to be built.
However DM has said herself her housing needs are quite modest, so likely a timber chalet type thing not too dissimilar to a nice garden office. Also DH is linked to construction so could keep costs down.

Of course this is all hypothetical before planning has been established and realise that additional council tax will need to be taken into account

I know you have posted this in money but have a look at the elderly parents thread to see what kind of issues you could be facing.

Be aware of the Council Tax view on annexes and the charge levied against it. If you DM didn't live in it any more you would be liable for the council tax on it which can massively add to your bills.

I would move your Mum closer but not into your space. Demands can increase to personal care and you have to know where you are going to draw the line. My Mum cared for her MIL but not in our home.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents

why doesn't she keep all the money and then pay the bills for adapting the house? I'm not an expert but in terms of avoiding any issues that seems one option.

This sounds to me like your DB just doesn't want to lose out on getting inheritance.

Your plan seems to be "I'll take on all the responsibility and work of caring full-time for someone living in an annexe I'll sink all my inheritance into building which won't add any value to my house, and my brother will just receive a nice wodge of inheritance now with the expectation of half of your DMs share as well at some future point while adding nothing."

I agree with rosa
Your mum should pay for the build and keep all of her money until she passes and then split the rest equally between your brother and yourself
Only stumbling block would be if the annexe added value to your house or not
Depends how reasonable your brother is

I agree with the above. You could say that in the event of you moving after your mother's death, you will give him a percentage of any increase in value the annex adds over a certain amount. I don't think he should be in arms about money you might make. It's surely your 'payment' for being on call 24/7 and his peace of mind that his mother is happy and cared for.

Either way, this scenario could have years to play out, with caring costs eating up your mother's assets or a decline in property prices. I would only divvy up when all is said and done.

30 minutes doesn't seem that far away to me - I was expecting you to say she lived 3 hours away or something? Moving her into your garden seems an extreme response. I also wouldn't underestimate the burden caring will be for you. I would point that out very firmly to your brother - you will be doing all the dirty work and dealing with every emergency and extra housework/cooking etc over time and taking responsibility for a lot of things - while he does nothing apart from moan that he might not get an inheritance.

I would also point out that if you did nothing, your DM might need carers coming in. I have no idea how that's funded in England, but in Scotland all over 65s are now entitled to free personal care. If you're in Scotland you should consider this.

There are also other options eg technology. Alexa is a great resource for elderly people - if she was to fall, she could say 'Alexa, phone DD/999', for example. Or she could wear a falls alarm, and there are multiple other things you could get to provide peace of mind and safety. It might be worth exploring options for keeping her in her house before you jump into expensive building projects - can you call your local authority and ask them what she's entitled to, and what there is available to people in her situation? It's hard to advise without knowing what her difficulties are. If it's mobility has she got grab rails etc fitted in the shower/bath, would a wet room be easier for her to manage if she can't step into shower/bath? There are various aids for getting in and out of bed, or chairs that boost you up etc. Is she managing to feed herself? Does she go out independently and how does she manage when she does?

Really need to discuss this openly with DB. He's not money grabbing but I just want everyone to be treated fairly so there's no resentment. He may well suggest part of cost of the annexe comes out of his share given I will do lion's share of care.

DM defjnately needs to move rather than
Having adaptations made. She has lost a lot of friends recently and has started to feel a bit isolated in her village. Where we are there are numerous clubs and societies for the retired and I know my teens would enjoy spending more time with her.

Good point re paying still paying council tax on annexe after her death. That needs to be considered

Really need to discuss this openly with DB. He's not money grabbing but I just want everyone to be treated fairly so there's no resentment. He may well suggest part of cost of the annexe comes out of his share given I will do lion's share of care.

DM defjnately needs to move rather than
Having adaptations made. She has lost a lot of friends recently and has started to feel a bit isolated in her village. Where we are there are numerous clubs and societies for the retired and I know my teens would enjoy spending more time with her.

Good point re paying still paying council tax on annexe after her death. That needs to be considered

Really need to discuss this openly with DB. He's not money grabbing but I just want everyone to be treated fairly so there's no resentment. He may well suggest part of cost of the annexe comes out of his share given I will do lion's share of care.

DM defjnately needs to move rather than
Having adaptations made. She has lost a lot of friends recently and has started to feel a bit isolated in her village. Where we are there are numerous clubs and societies for the retired and I know my teens would enjoy spending more time with her.

Good point re paying still paying council tax on annexe after her death. That needs to be considered

Really need to discuss this openly with DB. He's not money grabbing but I just want everyone to be treated fairly so there's no resentment. He may well suggest part of cost of the annexe comes out of his share given I will do lion's share of care.

DM definitely needs to move rather than
Having adaptations made. She has lost a lot of friends recently and has started to feel a bit isolated in her village. Where we are there are numerous clubs and societies for the retired and I know my teens would enjoy spending more time with her.

Good point re paying still paying council tax on annexe after her death. That needs to be considered

Ha! Apologies for multiple repeats!

Get advice from an architect, they should be able to advise whether the local authority would be amendable to an annexe on the site.

Consider the loss of garden space that the annexe may cause, as this could have an impact on your properties value at resale.

Does your mum really need a separate annexe, with kitchen etc? Could an extension under permitted development be a better option perhaps?

Have you thought of what would you do with the annexe if mum went into care?

The family issue may be more difficult to resolve, good luck with that!

I think a supported living flat close to you would be more beneficial for both you and your DM. An annex in your garden could cause all sorts of problems. You might be happy to do the level of care currently needed, but what happens as those increase, and you end up spending all of your time out of work caring for your DM.

potofdreams1
Just wanted to say that my DC benefited so much from having my Mum living with us - she was their back-up and support, friend and advisor on so many occasions. A really helpful influence throughout their teens. Her presence also taught them to be considerate and unselfish - and patient! Obviously there were challenges, but all of us (DH included) wouldn't have done anything differently.