Elderly mother moving in with this

[potofdreams1]

Fully realise this is fraught with various problems and pitfalls but would appreciate thoughts/advice.

Elderly DM is 75 and really declining mentally and physically. She lives a good 30 minutes away and as I work can only get across to her about twice a week. A few emergencies have really emphasised how far away she lives. She lives in a bungalow but is finding it very difficult to manage.

I live in an average sized house but am lucky enough to have a huge garden.

DM has suggested selling her place and we build some sort of granny annexe for her in our garden.
This seems like a good idea on many levels - closer to us, able to support and can keep an eye on her. Take away worry of maintaining her house.

However, I have DB who whilst living 3 hours away and therefore not able to help out, obviously still needs to part of any agreement. He agrees we need to consider options but isn't keen on having her live with/near him. Also DM's life is here.

DM's total assets including the house are well below IHT threshold but I still need to be aware of
other implications and while I can't afford to shoulder all costs, the last thing I want is to be seen as profiting from her.

One suggestion (hers) was selling her house and proceeds:
One third to me
One third to DB
One third retained by DM.

So from my part I would build annexe. I also take on any care she needs; although if more is needed she still has some capital left to pay for it with.

Can you throw all reservations/points at me please!

Thanks Yolanda, didn't realise there was an Elderly Parents topic.
Will also post in there

She will need running water, toilet, electricity, heating, fire regulations have to be met, drainage, it sounds a lot of work, could you speak to your council planning department to see if they have any advice.

Pot I would be very wary of this.

What does she want to do?

How about contacting your local authority and requesting an adult care assessment? They could help you to explore the options.

Even if she has her own house she could get a package of care if she meets financial criteria- savings of less than £50,000. For this she could have up to 4 calls a day and support with things such as daycare. Sort her out for cleaners gardener etc local care companies can be paid to get shopping in. Local volunteers can do a sitting service. Lots of options

Have you thought about supported/ extra care housing near you? Again, the LA can tell you the options. She could buy some extra care housing near you, and then have on site help if she needed it.

I've seen many cases where having a granny annexe does not work, but I am happy to be corrected. Have her closer, but not living with you

As has been said upthread you your mum and brother need to have an honest conversation about future options. But, get adult care in to help you with the options. It costs nowt and they have a duty to assess and to give her a care plan.

All the best

Would selling and renting near you not be a lot simpler...?

Another factor is that supported/assisted living is like hens teeth around her. We are in a rural
Area and there are long waiting lists for suitable places

What happens when she needs physical care, are you going to do it will she pay for it? My FIL is in a dementia care home and it's £1k a week! 52 thousand pounds a year, he has been in it for nearly four years and at 84 except for the dementia he is physically fit, there will be no inheritance left so be very careful about spending any of your mums money as the council could claim it back.

If you are rural what is she going to do whilst you are at work? If she is declining who will provide most of the care?
How much interaction will she have with other people, especially when you are out?
I too would second looking at retirement flats/supported living.

How many bedrooms do you have? Any children, living at home or away and just visit? Could she take over a ground floor study/dining room?

I'd also suggest looking at retirement flats etc locally over having a granny annexe or her move in with you. Don't underestimate how much hard and emotional work it could be. I also think that if you go that route, it would be fair for you to receive more of the inheritance than your brother. When my grandmother needed care her son was living abroad (and was useless), and my mum and dad did it with carer support. She didn't take payment per se but agreed to things like petrol money.

All great points.

Realistically I couldn't have her living under the same roof and sharing facilities. By having her own separate space we can both have a degree of privacy.

Another thing I always think about in this type of situation, what happens if one of the other partner’s parents need help and assistance. Do you have to build another annexe? Who gets priority?

Not an issue Need.
DH has zero contact with his parents!

An Australian friend told me about a scheme where they deliver a prefab or mobile home to the garden for an aged relative to live in. This works better in a country that has more space round the houses. It needs to be connected to mains electricity, water and drains. It is removed when no longer required.

Piglet -
What a great idea! Will investigate

Our local authority would be VERY unlikely to grant pp for a self contained annexe in the garden. Some people have tried going down the permitted development route (you can build quite large outbuildings subject to certain criteria) but even then, when they’ve applied for a lawful development certificate they have quite often been refused. Taken into account in the assessment of lawfulness is whether the structure is reasonably required for “purposes incidental to the enjoyment of the dwelling house”, querying whether the function of the outbuilding could be provided within an extension to the property, assessing how self contained the annexe is (I.e. separate cooking and bathroom facilities) and an assessment of the size relative to the footprint of the house.

Can I ask which area you live in Jan?
We're Suffolk.

We have a lot of reasonably sized outbuildings
In the garden but very close to the house and could cost more to convert than new build.

Oh I’m in outer London. Lot of green belt around and local authority really twitchy about annexes! Have a policy in th local plan specifically about them, basically saying preference is for extension to the house, accessed only through the house with no capacity for severance to form a self contained dwelling. I have a friend in Suffolk who has quite recently converted a stable block in her garden to a totally self contained annexe so they might be more relaxed there. It wouldn’t surprise me.

I'm also in the camp of selling and renting something suitable very close to you.

Deprivation of assets, impact on your property, consideration for when DM needs more care than you can comfortably manage, relations with DB.

It is very complicated.

Aaaargh!! Why is it all so complicated?
You'd think the Government would encourage this sort of family support setup

It's good you recognise that need for privacy, as it's easy to underestimate the impact that has.

It's all very well for your mum to say she'll be fine in a glorified shed, but I think some serious research and testing would be needed. I don't know how the insulation standards compare but it might be worth looking them up and using them for some testing. Eg if heat retention is similar standard to a mobile home (I'm guessing), maybe try spending a week in a mobile home in January. That may sound ridiculous, but perhaps it's due diligence before your mum moves lock, stock and barrel into one. There's also sound insulation and how it feels in high winds, during storms etc to think about.

My friend has done similar. All the practical and financial considerations aside, she has underestimated what being 'on-call' 24/7 month in month out indefinitely would have on their relationship and her mental health. She has become resentful of siblings that leave everything to her (despite her making this lifestyle 'choice') and even her DM herself, and admits she wouldn't make the same decision with hindsight. Today is the best your DM is very likely to be and living into your 90's is not at all uncommon now.
As a nurse I've often seen the relief when elderly parents have gone into a care home after years of doing what they thought was the right thing! Your relationship with your DH must take priority. Be wary.

PotOfDreams1 I was a visiting officer for a government department for a decade. Visiting the elderly in their homes/care homes.

I saw thousands of elderly people over that time , in all states of health and with all kinds of economic and social backgrounds. One thing stood out head and shoulders above the rest...

Those that lived with their relatives - especially in an annex /independent space attached to relatives - lived FAR AND ABOVE a better quality of life than any other type of set up. Independent living complexes/sheltered homes/care homes - NOTHING came close to an annex at child's house.

Go for it OP. If you want to give your mum the best quality of live in her old age, this is it !

... also don't become too wrapped up in 'deprivation of assets ' . Part of my job was involved with care home costs assessment. It DOES depend on each local authority area - but a charge of deprivation also required them to prove 'intent' .. ie did your mother sell her house and move into an annex with you because she INTENDED to avoid care home fees - or did she do it because it was a sensible way to ensure care in her old age ?

I never instigated a single prosecution in 12 yrs for someone who had set about providing for their own elderly care in this way. Mostly because people who live in annexes have a great quality of life . Sadly on a few occasions the elderly person broke a hip which would mend and a care home move was the only solution- but that could not have been for seen and the fact they had put money into an annex was disregarded on each occasion.

My mother sold and bought a retirement apartment in a complex about 10 minutes from us. Pull cords in all the rooms, and now updated it has a button she care wear if needed. Common area if you feel like company and a manager during weekday business hours.
Some people there have carers coming in, other are still working. Mum is inbetween, she is still driving, shopping and going on holiday.

Just a few things for you to consider.

Who will provide care when you go on holiday?

What if you need to move house or want to downsize when you retire and your mother is still with you?

In my experience people can become lazy when they think they have an easier alternative close at hand. You may end up having to do more care than you anticipated.

Is your husband totally on board with this?

Thank you Smaller it's good to hear a pov from your side of things and the reality of a penalty being imposed.

Re. DM gong into supported living or similar, there is probably less than an a handful of suitable or affordable places. What does exist has ridiculous waiting lists.