Elderly parents and downsizing

[labradoodles]

How have you bridged the topic?

DM and DF live in our family home which they were bought new in 1968. It’s a nice 5 bed detached with about 1/4 of an acre of gardens, in the suburbs. They enjoy having my brother and family from abroad to stay with them.

They are both 82, in good health but have aged a lot over the last year or so. They enjoy hosting dinner parties and love their grandchildren to bits, and are active within community groups such as WI and Probus.

I think they need to make the move now whilst they have time, rather than rush the move if one falls ill etc. They both still drive but DF should probably stop soon.

They seem to be struggling more with the garden, they’ve had it re jigged to be more manageable and have a gardener to cut the grass etc. My df inherited a full size pool table which he has a games room for. He doesn’t use it much anymore but is tied to it.

I’ve looked at bungalows around here but they are very expensive for what they are. There are some lovely flats here with lift and village access but seem to all be built for childless couples rather than the aged.

DF can’t think of anything worse than being couped up in a retirement village with other older people. He is ferociously independent.

Any advice?

MrsFezziwig the poster stated downsizing should happen in your 60s and I was illustrating that many people in this age range are fit and healthy and there’s no reason to do so.

As to why we would upsize well erm because we want a bigger house and can afford it.

It’s very ageist to suggest everyone who reaches 60 is somehow unfit and should move to a pokey little bungalow. My mum didn’t downsize and died in her late 80s of a non age related illness. One day she was there and then she was dead. I wouldn’t have been so disrespectful to suggest she move if she didn’t want to. Quite frankly some people treat their parents like children.

Gosh, what a sad and cynical view cptartapp

I am fully aware that the whole issue is complex and overwhelms many families. But to pick on a story in which the elderly couple have sorted and fund their own care and the family are happy to visit regularly seems beyond cynical.

There are families that love and care about each other you know.

Well said Molakai.

My mum wasn’t a burden and asked for very little help. Although we would have helped more if needed.

I can understand why people want to help their parents but at times many adult children seem to want to dictate and interfere like their parents are mindless fools.

@Imissgmichael you are quite rude. And unpleasantly smug. And you make a lot of assumptions.

No one is suggesting people in their sixties aren't fit and well (though some people are not, irrelevant to their age). We are fit enough to have done up this large bungalow with our own bare hands, knocking down walls and building new ones to reconfigure it to our own needs. We now have a large open plan living area perfect for entertaining friends and family, gorgeous new kitchen and bathrooms, all done ourselves down to the last drops of sweat and bleeding fingers. Worth every minute to have built what we want in an area we love, and a huge sense of achievement. And large ramshackle garden to tackle this year.

It's been a good move which allowed us to give up high pressured commutes and become instead professional musician and ceramic artist / writer, long-standing self employment to which we can now devote as much time as we like.

This has gone off topic but to get back to the main point, yes, the impetus and desire to downsize needs to come from the people concerned, rather than their concerned families. Some people are great planners, and those that are will probably make the move well before its needed, and it could just as easily be viewed like any other house move, not necessarily to downsize but to something that will suit the next stage in their lives. Not unlike newly weds who choose to live in a nice area near good schools long before they have children.

Imissgmichael where was the post saying everyone in their sixties should move to a “pokey little bungalow” as you so charmingly put it? Nearly everyone has said downsizing should be the choice of the people involved, and people have contributed their own (different) experiences - some of which involve downsizing, others not.

And if you can afford a bigger house in your sixties, you’re probably not living in the same world as a lot of posters on here who haven’t even got a decent pension provision - how will they afford to get in live-in carers?

I think the difficulty is that people (understandably) don't want to consider moving when they are fit & healthy. However, age creeps up quickly for all of us.

For My parents & their friends (mid-70's & early 80's) almost all now have significant health issues or are literally dropping dead. It's a very sad time for them.

Many are still in houses where they struggle to manage stairs, cannot maintain the large gardens & have no family nearby.

My parents neighbour is in her 90's & refuses to entertain the idea of a nursing home (she can barely walk& is housebound) but expects friends & neighbours to facilitate her choice. (Her family are a distance away). It's such a worry as she is clearly unsafe at home.

Of course choice has to be paramount, but I think it's very selfish & unfair to expect others to facilitate a lifestyle choice.

My advice is to keep broaching it gently until it lands.

My FILs did not do this. MIL suddenly had a stroke. They are now in their 3 bed semi with no downstairs toilet with MIL being trapped in a hospital bed/wheelchair with commode and bed baths in the front room as upstairs bath/loo is obviously not feasible - the way their house is laid out is too compact for a stairlift. FIL totally overwhelmed with everything so won't move or adapt the house now.

I wish we were firmer when they were still well.

Sorry to be so blunt but i think of it every day as we try to persuade the increasingly stubborn FIL to do something/anything about it.

I'd say that a nice bungalow with a wet room is the future and the quicker you can get them in one, the better. Yes, they are expensive for what they are but how much for a peace of mind?

It is up to them. My parents downsized at 70 , this released some capital and reduced their day to day chores. It was really successful ; however they were both unusually lacking in sentimental attachment to bricks and mortar or things in general so it was easy for them. Added to that they wanted to live near to their daughters and DGC which incentivised them. When DMIL 'downsized' she did end up with a smaller garden but gradually added rooms onto her new property to house not only all her old stuff but also all the things she has acquired over the last 20 years. She likes to be surrounded by the familiar.
Unsolicited advice is rarely welcomed, i don't think you should be advising your parents unless they ask for your opinion.

Theendofit, I do think some really old people can become very selfish and self centred. Dh had an old aunt (childless) who became unable to manage, even in a small, convenient flat. Although she could easily afford it, she was too tight to shell out for carers - she expected friends and neighbours to do it 'for love'.

But most of her neighbours were themselves elderly and decrepit - I'd have them on the phone wailing that they couldn't cope any more. It was a nightmare when she simply wouldn't have the carers dh arranged for her. - 'too loud' or 'too common' - anything to avoid paying.

And we lived a 2 hour drive away. He did eventually manage to get her into a care home, but boy, it really took some doing - my poor dh was run ragged with it all.

my parents are in their 70's and my DF is in poor health. They have a massive house in a really desirable area. We've been telling them to sell it and move somewhere closer to us all and pocket a seven figure sum so they can spend it and enjoy it, for some reason they won't, despite the fact we (their children) are doing the garden, the maintenance etc, It's no real bind but they really ought to cash in (in my opinion and that of my siblings)
My mother in law is a 4.5-6 hour drive away depending on traffic, she lives rurally, and is on her own. She's now looking at downsizing (which is great) but intends to move a further 2 hours away. We will be reducing our visits as our kids hate to travel so far, she won't come to us (despite us having ample space and offering to insure the car so she can be independent) We've said this to her to see if it will make her reconsider. If she doesn't then we will stick to it.Not punitively but because we don't have the time/capacity to travel a day in each direction to visit someone who has made our lives more difficult with this move, interestingly every time we go there's things to do on the house/ in the garden etc that she's not managing, I jetwashed her patio and deck and re-oiled it all and her fences last time :D

I’m not rude at all villageshop. You clearly said people should downsize in their 60s.

My posts and opinions stand. I used to run a department that dealt with claims mostly from people over a certain age. Those claims don’t exist now. I used to get pig sick of so called concerned younger relatives of claimants sticking their nose in. Oh no, dad/Aunty/uncle is too old to understand, put everything through me. Oh it would be better if you paid into my account. They didn’t get far with me.

Oh and Mrfezziwig why are you going on about live in carers. There is absolutely no need for everyone to downsize at the magical age of 60 just in case at some point they may need help. For goodness sake what a lot of ageist comments.

Dear god someone just called older people decrepit. Disgusting, disgusting comment. I’m not suprised though.

This is a parenting site.
Everyone surely appreciates the hard work and effort we put into our children. For years and years.
My lovely neighbours looked after their grandchildren for around 16 years too.
Their family loved them.
It is sad to read that so many people are resentful of their parents.

This 'getting rid of stuff' that several people have mentioned in relation to elderly parents. There just seems to be something rather final in thinking that this is the right thing to do. It's almost like saying 'well, you won't be around for much longer, so can you sort your shit out so we don't have to do it when you die'. We had to clear my parents house when they died. It was rather touching to find things from my childhood that I had forgotten.
We are in our 60's. Within the last few years we have had our house massively extended and totally refurbished, purely to make sure it suits our needs for the rest of our lives if we so wish, wih no major maintenance required. We like our individual space. I would probably murder my oh if we moved to an 'easy to manage' smaller property.

imiss, my use of the word was not intended to be in any way derogatory. The very elderly people in question, who were unable to cope with the demands of dh's aunt, were themselves suffering from multiple frailties, including very poor eyesight, , which was why they would phone me in distress about it, poor things.

(I work with the elderly).

Size isn't the issue, the key in really old age is a combination of

• access to services
• access for family to spend more time helping them
• and money.

And increasingly, willingness to use the internet.

If they

• are in a suburb with a rich and local supply of carers, cleaners, gardeners, taxis, a walkable shop, a local GP surgery, not too far from a hospital
• can afford cleaners and gardeners (and later on a stair lift and carers)
• are reasonably close so family can pop in and help them/check up on them
• are internet savvy

then probably no need to move. However, if they live in the middle of nowhere two hours' drive from the nearest willing child and have no money then by all means start encouraging them to look somewhere closer to you.

@Lucisky - my parents are hoarders; their 5-bedroom house is full of almost 50-years worth of "stuff". Things like my mum's old school uniform from the 1950's, kids toys from 70's, 10 years worth of "Which". reports.

Unfortunately when they die, my sisters & I, who live 1-2 hours away - are going to have to clear it out. We are all working & have youngish families. It will take MONTHS of weekend visits to sort it out, sacrificing family time & probably having to buy a second car to do it. I am dreading doing it, as it will feel like I am throwing away their life

Of course people have possessions which they accumulate in life, but this is a whole different level.

And now they are 76/81 they are not physically or mentally able to do it (dad has dementia & mum is his carer - her health isn't great either).

If you had asked them in their 60's & early 70's, when their health was good - they would have refused.

Mid-70's onwards seems to be a different kettle of fish for their friends - mostly they were all in good health until then.

Unfortunately, a sudden crisis usually brings things to a head & it's never a good time to move in that scenario.

My aunt & uncle downsized of their own choice at 70; they were both healthy & active. Sadly, my aunt died very suddenly & unexpectedly earlier this year. I am relieved they made the decision before.

I love my parents dearly & it's so sad to see them struggling - maintaining a 5-bedroom house is too much for my mum - even with cleaners, gardeners etc. But my dad now couldn't cope with a move due to dementia.

Their home may need to be sold for care home fees; I wish they had got somewhere smaller & more manageable years ago; they could have enjoyed spending their hard-earned cash.

@TheEndofIt. We had the same thing really. None of us lived that close, but really, it wasn't as bad as we thought. My parents had a large 5 bed. Good stuff went to auction, we took what we wanted, which wasn't much as we all had furnished homes anyway, but the rest was taken by house clearance, who did an amazing job. You have to harden your heart though. I learnt through this process that I am not really sentimental.

@Purple I think your summary is really interesting and helpful🙂

it does seem as if many people, just by default, slide into situations which cause such a lot of stress and difficulty and just exacerbate all their problems

@gettinglikemymother, it sounds like you had an awful time with your husband's elderly aunt but why didn't he just tell her that he is unable to provide care and that she has the money to pay for it?

@Wordthe - yes, as well as people coasting along in good health & not wanting to make changes - then there's a sudden change (stroke, cancer treatment) and they are not able to cope.

I will not be living in my 5-bedroom 3-storey townhouse at 70....,...

If they can afford cleaner, gardener, helper/carer why move. We live in a rambling country property. Caters could live in upstairs whilst Dh and I live down when the time comes.
It's only an issue if they assume you will step in and cook, clean etc. Make it clear now that you aren't taking it on, they can pay people.

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but in my local area, a maximum care package is 4x a day of 15minute visits by carers. These are usually for:

1. getting up/dressed,
2. assembling a quick lunch/dinner - microwave meal or a sandwich
3. Tuck in for bed.

So proper cooking, shopping, cleaning, maintenance, laundry, tidying up, repairs, servicing/utilities etc still need doing.

It's still a huge amount of work, and you need to be internet-savvy to manage a lot of these (eg home shopping & deliveries.

All hell broke lose when my parents were on the maximum care package!

My parents downsized a few years ago in their mid sixties. So glad they had the foresight to do it then. Their main reasons were their old house was 3 stories and they were worried about managing stairs in their old age and the garden was becoming harder to manage. Plus they didn't want to leave one of them struggling to cope with the house or having to deal with a move alone should the worst happen. My dad must have made over 50 trips to the tip/charity shops clearing out 50 years worth of stuff, whereas my mum doesn't drive and could never had done that. My dad, despite being fit and healthy has recently developed a knee problem and can't manage stairs at the moment so they definitely did it at the right time as they now live in an easily manageable one level property with a small manageable garden.

So many of us are having to deal with this tsunami of stress and chaos with elderly parents which can for more than a decade

They gritily hang on until their 90s but we barely make it to our three score years and ten cos we're all worn out and knackered after looking after them !