Offers over?

[NotMyCircusMonkeys]

I'm a first time buyer with a maximum budget of £195k-£197.5k.

I've seen three properties I like advertised, two at "offers over £200k" and one at £210k. They've all been online for 2-3 weeks.

I'm just wondering what would be a reasonable offer? Is "offers over" normally really strict, with no exceptions, or would it be worth offering £195k on either of the two listed at £200k? Also, would I have any chance at all of getting the £210k house for around the £195k mark?

I'd just like to try and work out really how much sellers generally accept under the asking price (I appreciate it will vary depending on circumstances!) so that I don't waste anyone's time.

AnalyticalChick
But sellers are often buyers as well.

It's not rocket science for buyers to be aware of what the market is like generally in the area they are seeking to buy.

If sellers choose to say OIEO £utterly ridiculous price then that's their choice. I won't waste their time or mine looking at a house £20-30,000 above my budget regardless of what I think I might offer.

@MaisyPops
Some buyers and sellers may be aware that buyers with funds are have become very rare in a particular location, and that the market has changed drastically. Others will think that because well funded buyers were plentiful 6-12 months ago, that is still the case. EAs tend to paint a rosy picture, even if their local market is on its knees.

I have an apartment in a building with about 100 others. There’s an estate agent in the building (shop units on ground floor of building). They sell the flats in approx 8 weeks by marketing them low. As many are investments and made their money years ago (central London) this works well for overseas owners especially.

However, the odd homeowner will go to another London residential agent and the property will be marketed for up to £100,000 more. I have seen this - two places the same size in the same building but £100,000 difference in the asking price. And you know that, if they hang on for a while, might take 6 months, they’ll get it, well an offer on it, less than their asking price but more than the neighbours. It’s simply because they were selling at the right time in a sought after place.

Something is worth what a buyer is prepared to pay.

Some buyers and sellers may be aware that buyers with funds are have become very rare in a particular location, and that the market has changed drastically. Others will think that because well funded buyers were plentiful 6-12 months ago, that is still the case.

Exactly.

AnalyticalChick
But you can tell where it's on its knees with a bit of research, drive around, ask around (not in loads of detail but enough to make some informed decisions)

We looked at some properties in one town where you could get a 4 bed place for pennies & there's loads of ex buy to let places up for sale (all up for a similar amount, all decorated in that 'I bought a 3 bed semi and painted it magnolia as an investment' type style). Clearly as the housing market crashed and more people started buying in the region it had made buy to let landlording less lucrative and they were facing negative equity. They can't afford to take less than a set amount, but they're priced a little above other comparable properties (you can spot them a mile off). The market picked up a little and then some of them sold having broken even.

We saw a house in budget with great potential for renovation. We didn't but it because on costing it we figured we'd be unlikely to make our money back if we sold because of the location.

A friend of ours bought their first house and it needed work. They got a good deal. They fancy doing a loft conversion and an extension but won't because as they say there is clearly a ceiling on properties in that area of the city. When they need the space they're going to move.

People need to take a bit of responsibility, do their research and act accordingly. It is possible to do that without wasting people's time viewing properties 10s of thousands of pounds out of budget.

@MaisyPops It's pretty bad in many parts of Greater London, and that has been spreading out to the SE and southern England, and is starting to go beyond that. Some people will not realise that their previously booming local market has changed, because the land registry figures are often more than 6 months out of date (from sale greed date to publication date). A lot can change in 6 months.

MaisyPops you can’t tell when the seller is on their knees from driving round. Counting bricks makes no difference if the person selling needs the money now and will take any offer.

@Homescapes And sellers will usually try to hide the fact they are desperate for cash. They will sometimes go to great lengths to convince a buyer they do not need to sell.

You can do as much desk research and as many viewings as you like but sometimes until you make an offer and open a dialogue with the Seller, the reality of their position won't become clear. Yes, they may have advertised as 'offers over' as they're desperate to get a certain amount or the most they can, but equally there could be a whole host of other factors they're taking into account like timescales, family, employment, change in circumstances etc. which once they have a potential buyer on the table can influence what they're willing to accept.

@AnalyticalChick
land registry figures are often more than 6 months out of date (from sale greed date to publication date)

I think you meant sale agreed date, but what you wrote is apropos.

@wherewithal Well spotted. Obviously a freudian slip :-)

PlugUgly1980
But if someone is open to offers in the region of X then don't say "OIEO". Have an asking price and take it from there.

It's not rocket science.

Otherwise it seems that life for the straightforward among us ends up ridiculously confusing because people see OIEO and think 'gosh they mustn't mean that and I fancy it but only at 30 grand less' and so time and effort is wasted.

Offers over/OIEO - if I can't afford that price then don't bother wasting time (or I might call up the estate agent and ask what the situation is with the property e.g. budget is X, we would be potentially interested in viewing the property but only if the vendor was willing to consider £A-B can you ask the vendor if that's worth our time viewing?) Don't go and look at an unaffordable property you have zero intention or ability of affording.

Asking price - if you're aiming in the region and would be interested in negotiating reasonably then go for it

Maisie you seem to have your own rules! Buying and selling is a game, it’s full of players, you can’t force them to put their property on the market at the price you think it should sell at! Everyone seems to know this apart from you.

I just think things are quite straightforward.

Don't go browsing property you can't afford. If it's out of your budget then move on. Don't waste people's time. Buying a house is already a difficult process without dealing with cheeky fuckers and time wasters.

If a seller opts to put a stupid OIEO price on and they miss a sale then that's on them. Tough shit for not pricing it properly.

If I put an OIEO on my property then I don't want people wasting my time viewing it when they can only afford £20,000 under the OIEO price. (We had someone offer £50,000 under an OIEO price within a week on the market! Utterly ridiculous cheeky fuckers. It sold very quickly for the fair price we put on because we wanted a speedy sale).

With an asking price, negotiate all you like because it doesn't say offers over.

Don't go browsing property you can't afford.

Is that an order from Maisie the god?!

People do, they put in cheeky offers and sometimes get lucky. It costs them nothing to do it so they will always do it.

You seem to be bitter about your sale and are taking it out on the world.

Of course it's not

We had a great sale. As I said, we were in a chain with great people, all reasonable and everything went smoothly. Even moved into our house to find they'd left us a welcome gift.

People we bought from had had issues with cheeky fuckers and chains collapsing later because of them. We had to deal with cheeky fuckers within a week on the market.

It's just noticeable how many people I know have had issues when selling and there's common themes running throughout:

• people viewing properties they can't afford and wasting everyone's time
• people making offers on property that they can't afford and then having issues
• people making lowball offers, getting rejected, coming back with a reasonable offer only to start messing on later trying to haggle lower as the sale process starts to close (one friend had their chain fall through with a week to go).

You only have to look through this thread to see why lots of people must find house buying and selling stressful.

Don't go browsing property you can't afford

@Maisey Would that have been your advice to Richard Branson when he bought Nekker Island for $180,000 (asking price $6 million)? Do you think the seller was breaking the rules by allowing him to view and then taking his money?

It said asking price. He's free to ask.
Totally different ballgame to buying domestic property.

(A bit like 'Richard Branson made his fortune and doesn't have have GCSEs so you don't need GCSEs' stories. They are the exception, not the norm).

I just treat people in seeking to buy from how I would like to be treated. I don't like people wasting my time and coming for a snoop around knowing they can't afford my house and I won't waste other people's time. Our vendors who we bought from felt the same and were fabulous. As it happened, we had a lovely smooth sale with no stress off the back of it (once we'd told the C.F. to sod off).

@Maisy He viewed the property and then put in his offer and bought it for a fraction of the asking price. By your reckoning, he was wrong to look at a property that he could not afford the asking price?

I repeat. Business buying is different to domestic buying. I think it's cheeky, but I no nothing about business investments or buying islands.

At the end of the day, I view vendors as people like me who are seeking to sell a home with a view to purchase another property. I choose to treat them how I would wish to be treated.

If other people wish to chance their arm, view property they can't afford, opt to look at properties they have zero ability to pay for, and ignore perfectly clear OIEO by placing bids in tens of thousands under, mess around with offers and gasunder later then so be it. But I will continue to view them as cheeky fuckers who are more likely to cause issues than someone who is fair and reasonable (and as I've said repeatedly, I'm all up for fair negotiation when it says asking price).

I've seen too many friends and family have issues with those sorts of people, friends missed out on their ideal home a year ago, I've hated dealing with people like that and our vendors also had issues with people like that. I have no time for people who act in that way.

*know

It’s not a tea party, it’s a business, buying and selling, barrow boy. You’re dealing with all sorts. Those who understand business, those that don’t and those that live in cloud cuckoo land.

@Maisey Buying or selling, there are going to be negotiations to ensure everyone is happy with the end result. It is going to be stressful and there is no avoiding it, no matter how smoothly the process goes. NotMyCircusMonkeys has a budget to buy a property. They are not a CF or timewaster. The property they want to view may be overpriced and the seller may be open to negotiations. No harm done if their offer is rejected.

Business buying is different to domestic buying. no it isn’t! Just smaller scale. You think the ordinary householder isn’t in competition with people in the housing business? They are.

Maisie, everybody has problems with buying and selling, not just you and your friends and family. The rules are the same whether your Alan Sugar or my next door neighbour. You negotiate and try and get a sale.